- Hello, everyone, and welcome to another virtual workshop with the National Portrait Gallery. Thank you so much to everybody joining us today on Zoom and on Facebook Live. I can see everybody streaming in through our front doors. It's so exciting to see everybody. Thank you so much to everyone who's leaving your cameras on. We really love seeing all your faces, particularly for these workshops. It's a very strange experience that we put our, hello, hello, thank you. It's a very strange experience that we put our artists through. Usually our artists are used to doing physical workshops where they have people here in the flesh, and so for you to leave your cameras on is actually a really lovely environment for us to bring them into 'cause we can see all your beautiful smiling faces and the wonderful art that you're gonna create with us today. My name's Gill. I'm very fortunate to be both living and working on the beautiful, and at the moment, quite soggy lands of the Ngambri and Ngunnawal peoples here in Canberra. I'd like to pay my respects to their Elders past and present and also extend that same respect to any of the traditional custodians of the lands on which you're joining us from today. So for us, for the National Portrait Gallery staff, I think these digital workshops that we do with artists are probably some of the most exciting things that we get to present as part of our work here at the Portrait Gallery. Don't tell anyone else that we do programmes for, but these workshops are pretty special for us, and they're special for a couple of reasons. The first one we've already touched on is you, the community, the artistic community who are joining us this afternoon for an afternoon of, this morning, I don't even know what time zone I'm in at the moment, maybe some of you it's afternoon, this morning for a morning of creativity. So thank you all for taking the time out of your busy schedules to actually refocus and celebrate the arts and join in with us here at the Portrait Gallery. Now there is, we like to keep our workshops fairly casual. So it's not a TV production. This is very live, and there will be things that will probably go wrong or might go a bit askew or I might forget what I'm talking about, which happens frequently. If anything happens in the setup, please let us know because we've got an amazing team working behind the scenes. We have Hector and Mark, who are working on our production deck, and we have Georgina, who's over in the corner who's managing the chat. Now, that chat function here on Zoom and also the comments in Facebook is your connection with us today, and we'd love you to use it. So while we can't have our mics on, because as you can see, there's hundreds of people joining us today. It would be a little bit too noisy for us, but we really encourage you to engage with us in the chat, and I will be your voice throughout the programme. So if you have any questions, any comments, please throw them in there, because it makes the programme really interactive, and it means that you get that really direct connection with Caroline today and with our model and with our tech team, so shout out. If the camera angle's not working for you, let us know. If the sound has some kind of issue, let us know. Or if you're absolutely loving it and having a great time, please also let us know, 'cause we like those comments as well. Now, the second reason that I think our team absolutely adore bringing these programmes to you is the diversity of the artists that we get to work with. The thing is with these workshops, you never know what you're gonna get. We've had highly realistic oil painting tutorials. We've had sculptures made out of soap. We've had photography highlights and tips. We've had just about every medium and just about every kind of artist, and there's never the same workshop every single time. Now, this drawing workshop today is very special because we have Caroline Zilinsky joining us today, and she has her own unique style, I'm sure you will have seen when the programme was advertised and you may have done a little bit of Googling and seen her work. You may be huge fans. I noticed some Facebook comments where they were saying she's an utter genius, and I have to say I agree. So why don't we introduce you to Caroline today and our model that we're gonna be working with, and then we can get into it. Join us, Caroline. I'm gonna come sit next to you.
- Hi.
- How are you?
- Good, thank you. How are you?
- Yeah? Good. That's weird, isn't it, 'cause we've been talking for the last half an hour, and I'm like, "How are you?"
- Yeah, yeah.
- It's very strange.
- Yeah.
- Do you wanna tell the people a little bit about, you're a finalist in our Darling Portrait Prize, which is only open for this weekend, unfortunately. So if anyone's in Canberra, you might be able to pop in and see it, otherwise, jump on our website and have a look. But you're a finalist in our DPP. Do you wanna tell us maybe a little bit about the portrait that's on show at the moment?
- The painting I did was of John Feitelson, who's a avid art collector, supporter of, a huge supporter of the arts in Australia, and he's the publisher of "Artist Profile" magazine and "Art Almanack" and-
- He's a bit of a character, too, isn't he?
- Yes, he's a very unusual individual, and we've been friends for some time, and I painted his portrait, and what I wanted, like, we've often had like lengthy discussions about how, you know, we've had the fortune of sort of living two different lives in one lifetime. Like, we've both had, like, you know, very unusual pasts. And so when I did his portrait, I really wanted to try to capture the idea of this is the man that sits before you today but also embody that, you know, the wholeness of, you know, his life experience, which isn't that easy. Yeah, so, you know, you've got, he's seated there with the empty chair. And I did ask for him to be, well, I asked if he wanted to disrobe for the, it was up to him for the sitting. And he said he'll be shirtless, and that was it, which was fine. And yes, he got COVID the day after and lost a whole lot of weight, so he was quite disappointed with his girth. But yeah, that was okay. Yeah, and yeah, and then, yeah, he ended up really loving the portrait. And we were at the opening for the Darling Portrait Prize, and there was, you know, all dignitaries and benefactors, and he was so taken by his portrait, he took his shirt off in the middle of the National Portrait Gallery of Australia and ran around to be like his painting, yeah.
- I love it. Yeah, and is that portrait kind of indicative of your style of portraiture, do you think?
- Yeah, very much so, yeah. Yeah, for me, I am absolutely not a realist. I feel like for me, the process of portraiture is in order to capture the entireness of a human being. For me, I feel like I have to like go beyond realism in a way. Like it's, yeah, like the question I ask myself is, how do I capture, embody all the characters of a person, and a lot of what encompasses a human to me is unseen. So it's like sort of how do you capture the unseen in an image, yeah.
- And is that something that we're gonna explore today, do you think, we'll go down that path?
- Yes, probably, and maybe not by our choice.
- So you have a really amazing philosophy. When I first met you, I really warmed you because I am a failed art student. I wanted to go to art school, and I never did. And then I gave up and I beat myself up about, you know, "Oh, I'm never gonna be good enough. I can't draw, I can't paint," all of those kind of things. But when we met, you had these sort of ideas about leaning into mistakes and those kind of things, which I suddenly thought, "Oh, maybe I can give it another go."
- Yeah, yeah, well, why I think that, you know, well, I'll start, the human mind is like an incredible, like, we're like one of the most incredible creations, and the fact that we have self-awareness and, you know, I just think it's funny that, you know, like, you're given all like this genius brain, every single one of us, and, you know, we tend to like focus on the negative and like, you know, like our inclination is towards suffering no matter what it is, even in a drawing. And yeah, I just think, like, for me, creative expression for each individual person, it's almost like, you know, like every person has their own fingerprint, and I feel like our capacity to make and create and express ourselves is entirely unique to each individual. And yeah, and I think that a lot of magic can happen when you just embrace your own particular style, like whatever that may be, whether it's a complete aberration, or you're like, you know, a recreative genius and you can, you know, duplicate something in exactness and everything in between that. It's like, you know, like learning to embrace your own particular style and whatever that may be, and, you know, whether it's fluid or rigid or, you know, I think it's like an extension of a person's personality, and yeah, it should be like a small area that we embrace our personalities rather than punish ourselves. Yeah, easier said than done sometimes, but yeah.
- I think with that philosophy, we might introduce our model and start to get into it. I am so excited to see what you all create when you embrace your own creative DNA today. So let's try not to, let's try not to mimic completely, or if that's your style, that's fine, too. Let's just explore and see what comes out. We'll take a walk with the line. How about that?
- Yes, brilliant.
- All right, well, I'll let you set up, and we'll introduce our gorgeous model today. Sonya, thank you so much for agreeing to sit with us today. We're very excited to have you here.
- Thank you.
- So everybody, Sonya's going to get into position now. As embracing this idea about not necessarily learning to do a style that's exactly the same as Caroline's or exactly the same as a hyper-real artist that we might have brought to you in the past, but embracing your own style, we're gonna have a camera angle set up on Sonya, we're gonna keep that camera angle consistent. It may not be exactly the same as the camera angle that Caroline sees, but that doesn't matter today. We're just gonna, but we're not gonna move it so that you can actually work with Sonya for the whole time that we're doing the drawing. And we're gonna actually have an over-the-shoulder camera on Caroline so you can exactly see her style as it emerges on the page as well, and we're just gonna talk through it. So let's get into it. All right, we're just gonna reset the cameras. Marky's doing his, working his magic over the shoulder. Did you wanna have a little chat about your setup that you've got beside you?
- Yep, so the main thing is I've got, I've got obviously the paper, and I tend to work on a thicker card because if I took, for two reasons. If I, one, you never know when a, like, I think it honours the work a little more, like, to use good paper, and also for practical reasons. If I am going to use this then to, as a reference for a painting, it needs to have a bit of thickness to be able to hold it. And yeah, and I've got, I've got about 10 pencils that are already sharpened ready to go. So I guess for me, the whole thing is that there's as little interruption as possible when I'm focusing on the drawing, and yeah, that's about it. Yeah, so all the tools next to me, and yeah.
- [Gill] All right, so people, make sure that you lock the dogs in the next room and the kids in their bedrooms so that we can focus on our drawing for the next couple of hours. I'll just check in with the tech team to make sure everything's going okay and we're all good. Yep, okay, we might just start getting into it. Now, any questions or comments and things will, oh, somebody's noticed your socks, Sonya, isn't that great? I noticed your socks as well.
- [Caroline] And yeah, the only other thing I should say is, yeah, I guess I'm gonna focus on where to compose the, yeah, what I'm gonna include and not include. Like, if it's a close-up or a full body, I'm gonna-
- Oh, good point.
- Try to do a full body. So yeah, I'm just thinking where I'll begin the face so that the beautiful socks don't end up on another piece of paper and I've run out of room, yeah. You ready, Sonya? Feel comfortable?
- [Gill] And we've already noticed a few adjustments coming through, so we're gonna make a few adjustments for people. So we think that it'll be good if you'd be able to get a bit more of a full-body shot on Sonya, 'cause that's what Caroline is working with. So we might just pull that camera back a little bit so that you get a little bit more of Sonya included, and hopefully that will be not too disruptive.
- [Mark] Not too much, of course, not too much. Not too much, okay, good. Well, we won't do it too much. How are we there? Is that looking good?
- People say are saying that they're on a laptop, and it's too tiny.
- [Gill] Ah, okay, all right. Well, we might have to, let's start with the head, and then we might see if Caroline starts to move to other aspects, then we might zoom out a little bit too far. That's a bit too far, Marky, come in a bit. Yeah, I can see a few people peering at the screen. So we might leave it as it is at the moment, and then we'll work with that as we go. These are the things that we're always encountering with different people's techniques. Caroline, you're working on the face at the moment, aren't you?
- Yeah. Probably want-
- Caroline needs a lot of concentration for the face. We're gonna start talking through the process once we've managed to get a face on the page. But I can see everybody busily working away. It's lovely to see people sketching and exploring, We'll continue to tweak our cameras and our angles to make sure that we get the best possible result for everybody. Ah, oh good. Thanks, Erica, it's good to get feedback from people. I think we've had a few questions about the type of pencils that Caroline is using. I think they're mainly all HBs.
- [Caroline] So I'm using Columbia Copperplate HB, and what I've found is that like for drawing, to get like a, like, the difference in different brands is, like, the variation of HB in different brands almost goes from like a F to a 2B, like or 4B. So I've just, these are the ones that have the best for me for my, what I like to have, yeah, is the softness appropriate for the paper sort of thing.
- [Gill] Oh, well, there you go. Here was I thinking a pencil is a pencil, but absolutely not. Be interesting to hear if anybody out there is working, if everybody's working in pencil. I know that we sent through a little list as part of the programme development, sorry, the programme listing of materials. But there may be people out there who've embraced their inner creativity and are using a charcoal or something else as well to participate today. So let us know what you're using and what you're experiencing when that line is coming out into your paper. Is there anything that you're noticing that is working for you or not working for you? Oh, another question that I have no idea how to answer. Is the paper cold-pressed or hot-pressed? Is that the question?
- [Caroline] Are they talking about their coffee or?
- [Gill] Oh, maybe they are. Maybe I've misread that, hang on.
- [Caroline] It's Canson. I think it's 300, 200-gram or 300-gram paper.
- [Gill] Ah ha. Tammy's making Sonya look like a man. I think that's perfectly fine.
- [Caroline] Yes. Maybe not for Sonya, but.
- [Gill] Maybe not for Sonya. We did warn Sonya before she came in today that everybody was going to be experiencing their version of her in a different way and that things may not be hyper-real or as, but every, it's always like that, isn't it? We don't know how we appear to other people. So I think it's a fascinating process to sit for a portrait that people are gonna explore their own creativity with. It's very exciting. I'm loving that arm, Caroline. Such an elegant arm. Depending on how far through the drawing we get, we might end up adding colour, is that correct?
- [Caroline] Yeah, yeah, if are people happy to add colour.
- [Gill] Yep.
- [Caroline] It's not something I would normally do. I would normally add the colour at the painting stage, but I'm happy to give it a go.
- [Gill] Awesome. Oh, we've got people working with archival markers as well.
- [Caroline] Oh, nice. So I'm hesitating on the line, 'cause I wondering, do I, this is where I would, do I sort of shift from realism to, yes, like, what am I trying, gonna say with the, what am I trying to say, and do I, you know, then go to what I'm trying to say, or do I follow what's in front of me sort of thing. I might come back to it.
- [Caroline] So that's your thought process.
- Yeah.
- It's like do I start, do I, when every time you make a line, it's like, do I follow the reality of what my eyes are seeing in front of me, or do, I shift it somewhere where I, is that the thought process?
- Yeah, yeah. Or do I like turn this now into, yeah. So for...
- [Gill] And do you find drawing is a meditative process for you, Caroline, in terms of just-
- [Caroline] Yeah, I think the whole artistic process if, yeah, I have no control over my life, so at least I could control what's happening here.
- Okay.
- To a certain extent. Which I can't at all, that's all an illusion, yeah.
- [Gill] I wonder if people are finding it an interesting, if they are following the line creation style of drawing. Sonya, I'm wondering if they're finding it different or more difficult or easier than perhaps a previous process of kind of shapes and blocking out shapes that you might have used when you're creating portraits before, whether this idea of letting a line wander across the page is liberating for you or challenging for you. Liberating, that's great, Marlena. Often when we have kids programmes, that's why we have replacement pencils. Often when we have kids programmes, this is the kind of style of line drawing that we might get the kids to do when they warm up, and we sort of tell them just, oh, actually you know what the A&L people do when they take a line drawing class? I've seen them do this project before. They get people to draw blind, so they close their eyes, but they're not allowed to lift the pencil from the page. And so they just sort of draw whatever's in their imagination and let their hand move independently of their eyes, which is always a very interesting result for people when they take a look.
- [Caroline] Mm, when I was, I got quite sick for a while, and I actually had to learn how to walk again and-
- [Gill] Oh, my gosh!
- [Caroline] Yeah, a whole lot of stuff and like feed myself, and I spent, I think, like the whole, like confronting an empty page was so daunting that I, yeah, I spent a year. I'd start like drawing with my eyes closed, and it just sort of helped, yeah. Like, I think it, I think once you've sort of made a few marks on a page, you know, you're less anxious about what may or may not happen. And yeah, I think it's almost relaxing in a way 'cause you're completely, you let go of the outcome of what might occur.
- [Gill] That's such an interesting philosophy. I actually have heard quite a few artists say that the idea of starting with a blank canvas or a blank page is intimidating, and once they get that first little bit down, then you can, you sort of have an anchor that you can work with.
- [Caroline] Especially when it's being recorded.
- [Gill] Francis has said that the intro about embracing mistakes was very important to set the scene for freeing up her style.
- [Caroline] Same. It's like an insurance, can't go too wrong.
- [Gill] I can confirm that, Donna. So Caroline, because we're wanting to keep the focus on the hand and the model at the moment and so you can see, you can observe how Caroline goes about her mark-making on the page, we don't have a front-facing camera on Caroline's face, but she is constantly, I can confirm, rechecking and looking as she's drawing. So she's off, her eyes are flicking up and back constantly.
- [Caroline] Yeah, and yeah, I think it's, I'm just sort of, yeah, I kind of pick one. To begin, I pick one sort of spot on the face, be it an eye or an eyebrow, and just sort of do everything relative to that, so every angle relative to that, yeah.
- [Gill] Okay, and it doesn't matter if it starts to get, if perspective gets skewed or if things start to move out of place.
- Yeah. Yeah, I sort of, well, I kind of believe that whatever occurs in this moment is as it's meant to be. And you know, this is the mark, like to trust that whatever comes out, there's a reason for why it's coming out.
- Okay.
- So to sort of let go of my own analysis of it and just sort of let it, yeah, occur, whatever it may be, yeah.
- [Gill] That's fascinating 'cause we're not, we're never given that freedom when we're taught how to do art, are we?
- [Caroline] No!
- [Gill] Well, I certainly wasn't, I don't know about everyone on the screen.
- [Caroline] Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, it's, yeah, there's just no like, yeah, I think it's interesting, you know, if you just let yourself sort of go, okay, well you can analyse it later why things may or may not have occurred. And yeah, you know, how you feel on that day, well, what's going on in your life might affect, you know, how something, you know, why something comes out the way it does, and yeah.
- [Gill] And that's okay, too.
- Yeah.
- Huh. How many sketches would you normally make for a particular portrait work?
- One.
- One, I love it.
- One, and that's the one I work from, yeah. Yeah, that's why it's like, like there was this one lady that I sketched, Anthea Pilko, that was actually for the Portia Geach, "Anthea May or May Not," and it was the most atrocious sketch. I thought, "What am I doing? I should've been a cleaner," but- And I used it. I just stayed with that rule of like, just, that's what came out and just use it, and, you know, I'd made her look like half horse, half giraffe, and yeah, won the Portia Geach. So, but it was like, yeah, it was a shocking, shocking picture. But yeah, I just feel like there's a honesty in, you know, working with what you have sort of thing.
- [Gill] Yep, and your process of then moving to painting, would you then just work off that sketch?
- [Caroline] Yeah, I just look at the sketch and yeah, to try to turn it into, try to keep like as true to the line as possible, yeah.
- [Gill] So we're already half an hour into our sketching.
- Oh, god!
- [Gill] How long do these sketches usually take? Or is that like asking how long is a piece of string?
- [Caroline] Normally if I go to sketch someone, I'll say, like, reserve an hour, but like to sort of hold that particular pose.
- [Gill] Yes.
- [Caroline] And yeah, it takes-
- [Gill] Takes as long as it takes.
- Yeah, it takes as long as it takes and everything. But yeah, is everyone going okay?
- [Gill] I think, I will ask them. I think, how is everyone going? Is everyone exploring their?
- Yep, we get thumbs up there, thank you. I can see a lot of your faces up there. So we will hold this pose for the hour, yeah, Caroline?
- Yeah.
- Yeah, great. So Sonya's a trooper.
- [Caroline] Thanks, Sonya.
- [Gill] She's had her Wheaties this morning. We've seen a few examples of your work, Caroline, that you've shown us. And Georg, who's managing the chat, will be able to drop some of those into the chat and comments so that they can have a little look at some extra examples of your work in between sketching. Or if they, you know, wanna have a look, a little look later on they can when they have a break, a cup of tea. So I guess the thing that strikes me about your work is that not only is your style completely unique and enthralling, I absolutely adore it, I think it's probably one of my favourite styles that I've come across.
- [Caroline] That's quite an honour.
- [Gill] But you seem to meet the most incredible mixture of people. Do you go seeking interesting people, or is it just that they happen to land on you? Or do you, is it just that you find the interesting in ordinary people?
- Yeah, I think they're probably quite dull. No, yeah, I think everybody has like, you know, like is quite fascinating. I mean, like, there's certain people that would definitely, you know, I think everyone, I don't know, I just think it's like such, so remarkable that any of us exist on this like peculiar and hurtling planet and, you know, how people survive. You know, like ultimately how people, you know, what people make of their lives and how they survive. And it's such a curiosity and yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah, I think a lot of painting for me is a result of like not quite feeling that I can exist in the world, so I just observe it instead, and yeah, I really enjoy, yes, I guess, if you're looking through that lens, you know, everyone's quite interesting. But there's definitely been, I go to the same coffee shop every morning in Sydney, and I wake up really early, and I go there quite early, and there's always, I think, you know, it's such a strange grouping of people there, and a lot of my subjects have actually come from that cafe, just observing them, and yeah, and asking if like if I can paint them or like having conversations, and then they find out you're an artist and they go, "Oh, do you wanna paint me?" And I think, "Oh, okay, why not?"
- [Gill] Is anyone particularly surprised by the outcome?
- [Caroline] Yes, usually. I've had a few like shrieks of horror, yeah. I think people are very, I think people have a very particular idea of how they appear.
- Yes, yes.
- And they like to, it's quite confronting to be depicted in a way, you know, other than what you, you know, what you think you appear as. And like, I remember I had a run for a year of like people being like mortified by how they'd been painted and, you know, some very, I had one lady, I won't say who it was, I painted her, and when, so she's quite an important figure in Australia, done a lot, tirelessly worked for, you know, communities and, you know, the betterment of Australia's society. And she was an hour and a half late for the sitting, and she'd just arrived back from Newcastle, and she was sitting in this brown Parker chair in a, I don't wanna give away too much, and you know, in an outfit, and fell asleep in the chair while I was drawing her. So I drew her sort of semi-asleep and with all the crumples on her jacket. And what I was trying to portray was this woman who had fought tirelessly for the betterment of Australia's society where most Australians wouldn't even know that asleep in this chair from exhaustion and a long-spanning career. And when I finally showed her the portrait, I didn't get a response. And I said to her, I said, "She doesn't like it." And they're like, "No, you're being paranoid." I was like, "She doesn't like it." And then I called, and she was like, "I am a happy, colourful, happy-go-lucky, colourful, bubbly person, and you have painted me as cold and malice and calculating." And I was like, "No, you don't understand." Like, I had to explain, you know, the whole reasoning. But her husband really liked the painting, so at least someone did, yeah. Anyway, so you never quite know.
- [Gill] I think I've heard a lot of stories, actually, about John Brack's sitters having a very similar response.
- Really? Yeah, yeah.
- Yeah, yeah. Sort of just not being, or just being surprised, I think, by what an artist I brings to your appearance. So, but the appearance that we know of ourselves is a construct as well. We don't see ourselves the way people outside of us. We see what we see on a selfie or in a mirror. But people see us in 3D, and they see us, you know, from their own perspective. So I always find it fascinating, our own personal responses to our appearance and how we look.
- [Caroline] Yeah, and yeah, like, when I had a few like issues, and I thought, oh, so I did a self-portrait through my cupboard mirror, and then because I'm quite a prude sort of, I don't, like a lot of sittings I've gone to, people ask to take their clothes off, and sort of, I'm completely shocked every single time, like horrified. But I've gotten used to it now. So I did this self-portrait, and like, I had a very similar reaction to, like, I found it really confronting to do my own portrait.
- Okay.
- Yeah. Because again, it's like, you know, I think, yeah, it's that thing if you have a perception and I guess it's a fluid perception of self, and I mean, a painting or a photograph is a very one, it's not fluid, it's a static presentation. So it's again, that thing of how do you capture the entirety of the person, like, you know, in a static image. Yeah, and I think-
- Actually-
- Yeah.
- Oh, sorry.
- [Caroline] I think the, I do think artists do bring a lot of their own personality and experience to the interpretation of a painting.
- [Gill] That leads into your, to a discussion of your, the symbolism and in your, that you bring into your portraits, too. There's always little hidden symbols, isn't there?
- Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, it's almost like a decoding of the person. And I'm also aware that, you know, especially like if it's a commissioned work, or even when it's not a commissioned work that, you know, hopefully it doesn't end up in a U-Haul bin. But you know, an individual is going to be living with this. I mean, the whole communication of art is that it's observed, and so, you know, how does the painting give more than the initial, you know, like you have your initial, like that it can continue the conversation, you know, for a lifetime, or not a lifetime, like, but yeah. So it's, again, like I think there's, you know, like it's quite, yeah, yeah. Is everyone going okay?
- [Gill] Yeah, somebody has mentioned that you appear to be pressing hard while drawing as opposed to sketching. Would you agree with that?
- [Caroline] Yes, I've cracked about four pencils. I don't know why. I just always end up pressing very hard, and yeah, I just had to go back over the face because the lines of the face were not as hard as what I'm doing now.
- [Gill] Is it something about the deliberate, you know, you are embracing the line regardless of how it comes out. Is there something about the deliberateness of that or?
- [Caroline] Yes, and I think it could be actually that as I concentrate, I don't know, maybe it's a, it could be as I get more anxious I press harder, or I don't, yeah, or maybe as I concentrate less, like, I don't know, it just, maybe as the line becomes more assured-
- [Gill] Yes.
- [Caroline] It gets harder, that's probably what it, I'm trying to figure it out as I talk, but yeah. Yeah, as I'm thinking less about what I'm doing, the line definitely gets harder. Does that answer it?
- [Gill] And do you use an eraser?
- [Caroline] No, I don't use an eraser.
- [Gill] I knew that was gonna be the answer, but I wanted to , wanted to ask it anyway.
- [Caroline] No rubbers and no erasers. Sorry, that was uncalled-for.
- [Gill] Abby's finding it incredibly hard not to shade, which is-
- [Caroline] Oh, I'm trying to save the shading, 'cause you said we're halfway through, didn't you? So-
- No, we are sort of, well, sorry, we're 45 minutes in to-
- [Caroline] 45 minutes in?
- Yes.
- Okay. I will go back and shade at some, like probably after. I just wanted to get most of it down first.
- [Gill] And do you use a pen, a marker often or ever?
- [Caroline] No, I like the traditionalism. I like the feel and the, if I had, I view, like, I've used borrows before and stuff, like, I guess use whatever utensil's available. But I do like the, I think there's something very traditional with a pencil, you know, it harks back to like, it's such a, it's like the, you know, like the original. It's an original source, yeah.
- [Gill] One of our friends on Facebook wonders if you use music when you're working at all.
- [Caroline] No, I prefer silence because I feel like the music, I feel like music influences what you're doing. And, well, the only time I play music is I have a neighbour who blasts like strange Hare Krishna music every now and then, and I have to drown it out with my own music. But yeah, generally silence. But that's a personal preference more than anything.
- Yeah, yeah, of course. I'm one of those people who's never been able to concentrate when there's music going on. I end up putting, I remember university, trying to write essays or trying to do a piece of work, and you end up writing the lyrics to the song.
- [Caroline] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- It's like, come on, focus.
- Yeah.
- [Caroline] Linda's wondering, she says, "From what you've already told us, I'm assuming you don't take a reference photo to take away for the painting?" Is that right?
- Yeah, I do. I take, I do-
- You do? Yep.
- [Caroline] Reference photos for the colour.
- Ah.
- For the colours and if there's shadows and things like that, yeah, yeah.
- [Gill] Thank you.
- [Caroline] If we, how long do we have? I'm just wondering if I do add colour or keep at pencil.
- [Gill] So it's 20 past 11, so we have another hour and 10 minutes.
- [Caroline] But for this pose?
- [Gill] Oh no, we have another 10 minutes for this one.
- [Caroline] Another 10? So I'm not gonna, oh, I'll see how I go.
- [Gill] It's up to you Caroline, though. If you wanna keep going on the one, we can keep going on the one.
- [Caroline] How is everyone, are they, how is every, is everyone sort of done with this pose, or how are you feeling, you're okay?
- [Gill] It's good. I can still see a lot of people busily working.
- [Caroline] Yeah, well, is there a preference that people would prefer to work on this for long? 'Cause we can do a shorter pose for the last one, or.
- [Gill] Okay. Let's leave people to comment, and I'll take a survey once we've had a few people put their comments in. We should start a poll, shouldn't we? We have the technology.
- [Caroline] I mean now that, like, that you've said 10 minutes, so I'm just gonna try and, I'm not gonna use colour, and I'm gonna quickly try and add all the shading in.
- [Gill] Oh, my goodness. We're almost straight down the middle. Thank you, everybody, for your comments. This is awesome. I think what we'll do, then, since we're sort of almost half-half, is that we'll stick to our hour and our hour. What do you think?
- Yep.
- Okay. So we'll do another 10 minutes on this one, and then we'll change to the next pose for the last hour.
- [Caroline] And have a lot of people used colour?
- [Gill] Nobody, I don't think anyone started the colour yet, but they'd like to see some, if that's possible, if you have-
- [Caroline] They would like me, to see me add colour?
- [Gill] A little bit.
- [Caroline] How long do I have?
- [Gill] Well, maybe not for this pose. Maybe we can have a little, we can change it up. Anyway, we'll let, it will be informed by you.
- [Caroline] Okay, I will finish this bit and then.
- [Gill] We're onto some shading now? That's great.
- Yeah, well, I'm just shading in the hair.
- [Gill] So yeah, we'll stick to the 10 minutes more on this pose, and then we'll change it to another one. Thanks, everyone, for letting me know. That's great. We've had some people who are using some coloured oil pastels and pencils.
- Oh, wow. Yeah, I really like the red on red of Georgia's dress and, not Georgia, sorry.
- Sonya.
- Sonya's dress. I do like Georgia's outfit, too, yeah, of Sonya's dress and, just gonna you put the fingernails in, on the red chairs.
- [Gill] What we'll do is when we've finished this, seven minutes now on this sketch, is we might ask our audience while we reset to another pose, we might ask our lovely audience to, sorry, audience, you're not audience, you're participants, artists to maybe hold up some of the work that they've been working on so we can have a little look at how it's going. The beauty of these workshops is that we can see, thanks to those people who have cameras on, that you're all busily working, but we don't actually get to see what you're working on until we have a pause and we hold it up. So we'll do at the end of this pose. How does that sound to everybody? That's great. Such a inspiring thing to see so many people busily creating.
- Yeah.
- [Gill] We've got people who are working with family members we can see. Some people just observing, some people in studios, some people in their bedrooms. When we change poses, Michael, we'll let Sonya have a little look. She will be able to see the big screen, but she's determinedly keeping her eyes fixed for you all at the moment. So but when we, when I ask people to hold up, we'll let Sonya have a look at your creations. Also, if anyone wants to send through some photos of their work at the end of the workshop, we adore that, 'cause it's not just, I mean, we get the fantastic view of being able to see everyone's work as part of the tech team on this, but there's a whole team of NPG people behind the scenes, our access and learning staff, and some people who weren't able to join us today but were really keen to work on this workshop, and we'd really love to share some of your creations with them as well. So if you feel comfortable sharing your creations on social media, that would be awesome, and tag us, @portraitau. Otherwise, Georg is putting our email address, I know not everyone's comfortable publicly sharing their work, but putting our email address into the chat functions on both places so you can email them through, and we'll share them to our staff. There's nothing we like better than Monday morning show-and-tell. Caroline, when we first set this or started to work on this pose, you were wanting to place Sonya in an environment. That's a key part of your work is having somebody in a space or in a location.
- [Caroline] Yeah, well, I think, yeah, it can be a bit more interesting than, well, I just, I think this just serendipitously worked well, like Sonya, the red dress, the red chairs. I liked the repetition of the chairs. And yeah, sometimes it can be more interesting, you know, to have the person in, I just realised I forgot her last foot, in an actual environment, so yeah. And if we had more time, I'd do the red. If I was to turn this into a painting as well, I'd do the red dress and the red chairs, yeah. I'm just drawing the love hearts of the socks on because they're very cute.
- [Gill] We're not able to zoom out enough, unfortunately.
- Oh, okay.
- [Gill] 'Cause people lose detail on there. Yeah, we've got, everyone has different devices. Some people are logging in on iPads, and it makes it a little bit tricky for us to get the distance without losing detail. But rest assured, there are some very lovely socks poking out from the bottom of that red dress. That's wonderful, Lisa. I love that you weren't able to resist the lure of the red in the shapes. Go for it. Run towards the red in the shapes.
- [Caroline] Yes.
- [Gill] So a couple more minutes on this pose, and we'll let Sonya get some circulation back into her legs and arms.
- [Caroline] Yeah, you're right.
- [Gill] Sue's wondering if you treat the inorganic stuff like chairs exactly the same as the person when you're drawing the line.
- [Caroline] In what? Yeah, I suppose. Well, no, I think a person's different to an inanimate object, but yeah, I suppose so, yeah.
- [Gill] Same treatment, though, in terms of drawing the line.
- Yeah, like these chairs are obviously not, it's more an impression as opposed to a duplicate.
- Yeah, lovely.
- Yeah, yeah.
- [Gill] And that's the, yeah, and that's the same way as we see the human.
- Yeah.
- Great.
- [Caroline] 'Cause I think that's what, I think if you get, I mean this is, like, some people are technically thoughtless and obviously, you know, it's a incredible skill. I think that, yeah, I think that's what the, where the individual expression comes out, like in just, yeah, your, how your eye or your heart or your mind see an image and say how you see the world as, you know?
- Yes.
- As opposed to trying to duplicate the world, it's just like, well, this is my response to it sort of thing, yeah. How long?
- [Gill] All right, we are-
- [Caroline] Oh, done?
- [Gill] I think we're on time. Thank you, everyone. We're gonna reset. So Sonya, thank you so much. What a wonderful-
- Thank you.
- Rigid, I mean not rigid, that wasn't rigid at all. What a wonderful still pose you held. Thank you so much. Please feel free to have a little shake and a move around. Ooh, and Gill's just sitting casually in a chair. I'm kicking back here like having a great time watching this process happen. Gill, focus, so everybody, I can see you up on the big screen here. It would be really wonderful if you might be able to hold up your creations so that we can have a look. Now, get them nice and close to the screen so that I can get, oh, yes, fantastic, look at that. Oh, that's brilliant.
- Oh, wow.
- Oh, wow, oh, my gosh. Oh, look at that fantastic blocked-out red. I can see that some people have brought the red through really strongly. That is brilliant. Oh, this is so exciting, so many different styles! Look at all the different DNA that we've got going on there. You know, I've seen some, I see some people have almost reversed, and they've worked on that background really hard and just left this sort of human-shaped space in front, which is super exciting, too. Ah, just wonderful. I'd really advise or encourage everybody to, ooh, and Gill's on camera again. Damn.
- Wow, Kathy.
- I really need to focus.
- Kathy, those are-
- I'd encourage everybody to flick through on Zoom.
- very interesting.
- You can see there're lots of little boxes. If you can flick through using, there's about five screens I think that you can get through. Just flick through and have a look at other people's creations whilst you're holding up your own. It's just such a terrific community to see everybody creating together. Oh, hello, hello, oh, so beautiful. Well done, everyone. That's exciting. So we're gonna work with the same dress for the next pose, but we're gonna have a different setting. So I'm gonna let our guys move the cameras into position. Oh, that's gorgeous.
- Yes, yes!
- I wanna shout out people's names, but I feel as though like some people might be using their family members' iPads, but there's some fantastic works coming through. Thank you, everybody. Glorious, oh, I love it! There's some awesome orbital lines coming out of that one, too, that's fantastic. I love seeing everybody challenge themselves to, you know, find their own style and their own personal expression. This is exciting! I think this is probably one of the first programmes that we've done where people have been free to experiment with their own style instead of trying to mimic Caroline's down to a T, you know, and it's exciting to see that come through. I hope everybody's finding that as valuable as well as we are observing it, it's terrific. We've just got the cameras being relocated. We're gonna get Mark to have a little look. Caroline, you can talk if you like.
- [Caroline] We're just trying to pick out a pose.
- Pick out a pose, that's fine, too. Oh, we've got, we can watch.
- Do people have opinion?
- No, they don't-
- Do you want to keep her?
- Yeah, it's okay, we'll have a chat to Caroline. That's, okay, Caroline, you set her, and we'll work with your decision.
- I guess we're being a bit more organic at the, we're just deciding on a second pose. I guess if anyone has a preference, if they'd like it more formal seated or-
- Oh, I think we had a formal one. So this one looks pretty great to me. Hopefully we'll have a little look at people. We're gonna get the cameras set. There'll just be a little bit of fiddling while we set up the best shots. Do you want me to grab a, do you want me to grab another piece of paper for you? Or you've got one under there.
- I think I've got one under there.
- Great. Terrific. Is that your grandmother's watch?
- It's my grandfather's watch.
- Oh, your grandfather's watch, that's fantastic. Oh, I'm glad that your grandfather's watch is gonna be represented in these shows.
- Well, it does match my socks, so it's good. All right.
- It's ready.
- You've already set your materials. I'm wandering around. Oh goodness, where am I? I'm standing in shot. I'm out of shot. Dear me, clearly I'm not professional presenter. All right, how are we going there, team?
- [Caroline] Yeah, you're happy with that?
- [Sonya] This fits me around, right?
- [Caroline] Are we happy with that?
- [Gill] If you're happy, Caroline, we're happy.
- [Caroline] Or is that very similar to, is that too similar? Do people have an opinion?
- [Georgina] No.
- [Caroline] Yeah, that's fine.
- [Gill] If we can, sorry, G, what was that? If we can turn slightly.
- [Caroline] Which way? Yeah, the other, yeah?
- [Georgina] Yeah, that you move there.
- [Gill] How we going? Oh, thank you so much, that's very kind.
- [Caroline] Are people happy with that?
- [Gill] All right.
- Okay.
- They're asking, are you happy with another side on? We've had somebody say maybe a front.
- [Caroline] Front one, yeah.
- [Gill] All right. No, I'll move you, how about that? That sounds like a good plan, here I am.
- Okay.
- All right. We'll just slightly adjust this way. And how's that? Are you happy with that, Caroline?
- Yep.
- Good.
- And I can hold it here, actually.
- [Caroline] Yeah.
- [Gill] All right, lovely, beautiful. And hopefully with this background, people will be able to see your gorgeous dark hair as well, Sonya, because we blended into the background a little bit last time.
- [Mark] did you put it around her?
- [Crew Member] Yeah.
- [Caroline] Do you have a spot to focus on? Okay.
- [Gill] Jay's wondering if you use a waterproof pencil or know of one.
- [Caroline] A waterproof, you can spray with hairspray after.
- [Gill] Ah, okay, we can spray with hairspray afterwards.
- [Caroline] Or actual professional-
- Lovely.
- hairspray.
- [Gill] Good.
- [Caroline] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [Gill] All right, I think we're just about good to go. So we have about just under an hour on this pose. I'm gonna relocate myself.
- [Caroline] Under an hour? How long do we have?
- [Gill] Just under an hour, Caroline, unfortunately. We would love to be able to spend longer, but. I mean, the beauty of this workshop is that people can continue to explore their own style afterwards. You know, this is not the be-all or end-all. It's just a start, isn't it? I'd actually love it if we inspired people to continue drawing all day.
- [Caroline] Yeah. I think definitely the more you do, the more comfortable you get, the more comfortable it feels.
- [Gill] I think that would be fine, Francis. All of our staff behind the scenes drink mineral water, so our cameraman is very quietly trying to open his bottle of mineral water without making a massive noise. It's entertaining me no end. People are enjoying this pose. It's a good one. I hope it's a more comfortable seat for Sonya, too. Ah, that's a good question, Abby. There isn't usually a centralised place where we pop all of the people's contributions afterwards. Usually it depends on, some people like to share with us but may not like to publicly share. But I think the best way is to tag us in social media, and that way we can kind of group them all together. Georg will do that work behind the scenes. So if you'd like to publicly share your work, please do tag us on either Instagram or Facebook, @portraitau. You can also get us there on Twitter, and Georg will do all of the work to make sure that they're all grouped together for us. Do you always start with the face, Caroline?
- [Caroline] Yeah, yes, because-
- Yes.
- If it doesn't, if the face doesn't work, there's not much point any of the rest of it working.
- [Gill] That's a good question, Marin. We'll go into that throughout this pose.
- [Caroline] What's the?
- [Gill] The question, sorry, I was not wanting to interrupt your face concentration. The question was if you could talk through the transition from pencil to oil when you work in painting, whether you redraw the lines in oil.
- [Caroline] Well, what's the, do I, what's, can you repeat the question?
- [Gill] Whether you can talk through your transition from the pencil sketch to your painting.
- [Caroline] I follow the drawing very exactly. And I have like a, I basically etch it sort of into every layer of the work. So for me, the drawing is, yeah, it becomes etched into every layer of the, that layer of the painting, yeah.
- [Gill] So it's almost a drawn painting.
- [Caroline] Yes, it's very much the line that, but yeah. I'm gonna try and work fast enough to add colour, so it's gonna be...
- [Gill] We're putting you under pressure today, aren't we?
- [Caroline] Huh?
- [Gill] We're putting you under pressure today.
- [Caroline] I would've very much liked to have added colour to the last one, but that like, there's also, I mean, if this was in, like, if I was drawing someone up, that's why I'd sort of leave the colour aspect to home, so to speak, 'cause it does take so much longer.
- [Gill] Yeah, and you know, that just gives us the opportunity to bring you back again.
- [Caroline] Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [Gill] So we do drawing the line today, and we work on colour next time.
- Actually, I'm gonna-
- Caroline's like, "I'm gonna run screaming from the building after this experience. I'm never coming back again."
- I'll go, "I've given up on it." "That's not worth my paper."
- [Gill] Oh, wait, there we go.
- [Caroline] Yeah, this is a, I don't normally add colour at this stage, so it's a bit out of my element, so I'm just gonna give it a go, destroy it IRL.
- [Gill] Are you more comfortable with the chair, with your materials on that side, or is it possible for me to move it to the other side?
- [Caroline] No, it's fine.
- [Gill] That'd be awesome, thank you. Just means that we won't block the camera if you reach over.
- [Caroline] Oh, okay.
- [Gill] Thanks, Marky. And that's a set of coloured pencils, the same brand as the lead?
- [Caroline] These are Faber Castell.
- Faber Castell.
- Pencils, yeah. And you can like, yeah, I mean you can get boxes of, that have like 500 different colours. I think this is a wide enough range for, you know, if you're doing something like this, and you suddenly need a colour without necessarily having to mix colours.
- [Gill] Does anyone else remember the joy of being gifted a set of Faber Castell coloured pencils and just thinking it was the most joyous present they could ever possibly hope to get?
- [Caroline] How exciting, yeah. Never grew out of it.
- [Gill] No, I'm still looking enviously at that box. I might have to seal it afterwards. Ah, Christine's a Derwent pencil person. Is it like Ford and Holden?
- [Caroline] No, I think Derwent would definitely have the final say.
- [Gill] Derwent win.
- [Caroline] So with this, the question I'm sort of thinking again is how much time do we have?
- [Gill] Another 40 minutes.
- [Caroline] 40 Minutes? Okay. Yeah, is again, do I draw Sonya as is there, or do I try to turn it into what am I, you know, what am I gonna say with the image, and do I turn it into something else that, yeah, which is based on Sonya but more of an expression of Sonya, sort of.
- [Gill] Caroline, we were talking before the programme about your painting "Original Sin." Was that part of the "Barren Land" exhibition that you've just put on?
- [Caroline] No, that, oh, "Original Sin." Which one's that?
- [Gill] It's my new favourite portrait.
- [Caroline] No, that was for Sydney Contemporary, for part of the series "Roe versus Wade."
- Ah.
- Yeah. I adore this painting, and Georg is gonna share it with you all. It's just got that incredible Middle Ages, earlier Renaissance kind of style of, it reminds me of Mother and Christ, you know, with the babies that looked like little men. They didn't look like what our idea of a baby is. And I love it so much because I know both my children didn't look like my perception of cherubs when they came out. They certainly looked like other-world aliens and little old men. So I adore this painting of "Original Sin" that you've done. It's fantastic. I wanna say symbolism in the carpet for this one as well?
- [Caroline] Yeah, I think, it was sort of, so it was based on like the whole like, like Roe versus Wade sort of, the controversy that was happening in, it's sort of like meant to be like sort of seething blood lines of, you know, like in, like, you know, is the woman sitting there by choice, like with her child, or what, you know, like, and questioning the, you know, such a fundamental question of like human life and you know, who decides, you know, like the decision around human life and who, and the carpet, so it's like seething blood lines that then look like a bit like hearts and worms and all sort of pulsing together, so to speak, yeah.
- [Gill] Brilliant.
- [Caroline] And that sort of visceral, you know, life force, those decisions around life.
- [Gill] I mentioned the "Barren Land" exhibition as well briefly. Did you wanna tell us a little bit about that project?
- [Caroline] Yeah, so that was part of the Evelyn Chapman Award, and I followed a trip that Russell Drysdale took in 1944 to Outback New South Wales. And he went with Keith, he was commissioned by the "Sydney Morning Herald" to go with Keith Newman and record drought conditions and I proposed to just follow the research and follow the exact route he took and then do my own interpretation of the land out there. And yeah, it, yeah, and then I spent, and I live in the middle of the city, so it was, you know, quite a life, and I spent almost two years painting, yeah, the paintings that came about from there, yeah.
- [Gill] And the characters.
- [Caroline] Yeah, and yeah, I found it very hard to let go of the people and just paint the land, so yeah. That was, I've just finished that, and yeah, I feel like I've, I'm still recovering, so to speak, yeah.
- [Gill] You retreated back to the city.
- [Caroline] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm still landing, I think. That was a big one.
- [Gill] I don't know about everybody out there, but if Georg is able to find the picture from "Barren Land" of the characters in the pub at the family hotel. I'm pretty sure I've met most of those people at some point in my lifetime, particularly the grumpy old lady at the front.
- She was the public and the owner, Melissa Thompson, yeah.
- [Gill] She's brilliant.
- [Caroline] Yeah, you'd have to be pretty tough to, you know, survive out there, I think.
- [Gill] Do you spend long getting to know your subjects for your portrait commissions?
- [Caroline] Not really, like a lot of them I've known for a while, and others, yeah, I mean, you can, yeah, it's more just through conversation. What John, who's in the gallery, actually, he said he thinks that the paintings of people are no better, there's more in them, but I think they're different. Like, they're, you know, there's a, I guess, yeah, there's an initial response and not an initial response, so to speak, yeah.
- [Gill] Yeah, okay, so there's like maybe a little bit of depth, of familiarity that comes through with the people that you know a little bit more.
- [Caroline] Sometimes it's harder when you know someone more because there's, I think they have expectations of, you know, like, and you, yeah. But sometimes it's easier to have like a sort of neutral palette of, yeah, sort of making an impression of the individual, like, yeah.
- [Gill] Sonya's chosen a terrific dress for today's session. It does fantastic angles, doesn't it? It's really good.
- [Caroline] How much time is there?
- [Gill] We have 32 minutes.
- [Caroline] Oh, okay. People enjoying the pose?
- [Gill] Do you find the pressure of the pencil for colouring is similar to the pressure of the line?
- Yes.
- Yes.
- [Caroline] Except these are a bit more solid, so they're not gonna hopefully snap.
- [Gill] Christine, "Hands and fingers are hard."
- [Caroline] Yeah. How much can they see? Is there a full?
- [Gill] You can look behind you.
- [Caroline] Ah, beautiful, yeah. Oh, that's on my picture, it's daunting. Is it weird, Sonya, to see the image appear next to you?
- [Gill] Sonya can actually see-
- [Caroline] Yeah, oh, you can't actually talk.
- [Gill] Can see the screen this time.
- [Caroline] Yeah, I think there's, I think, yeah, there's something very innate in people that I think seeing your reflection of themselves is, you know, like, it's our way of trying to understand why we exist. And I think that's why portraiture is still so, you know, I think that's why people are obsessed with selfies as well. But like, you know, like why portraiture remains such a fascinating field or area.
- [Gill] Absolutely. Very existence of a National Portrait Gallery indicates we haven't solved that problem yet.
- No!
- We're still fascinated with trying to figure ourselves out.
- [Caroline] Yeah.
- [Gill] I wonder if there's a world record for the number of people drawing at the same time. There must be. I reckon we should go for it.
- [Caroline] Yeah.
- [Gill] It's not often, Sonya, that you'd get 200 portraits of yourself done in a morning.
- [Caroline] Should put up a PO box and have them all set, make a shrine.
- [Gill] Yeah, a shrine, a Sonya shrine.
- [Caroline] Yeah.
- [Gill] I don't think our audience members have to look far to find interesting locations to place their portrait subjects. Everyone seems to have such fantastically creative environments.
- [Caroline] Yeah, well.
- [Gill] Is there anybody in the world that you would love to paint?
- [Caroline] I would love to do a reclining nude of Barnaby Joyce.
- [Gill] Well, that's prompted a reaction. Oh, dear.
- I don't think it would be fitting. Probably have John Bower in there too, but. Anyone in the world I would love to paint. Leave it with me, there's a lot of people. I won't say, yeah, I think Australia, I think, yeah, there's a, oh, I like allowing it to come to me sort of thing. But yeah, I think for the moment, maybe David Lynch.
- [Gill] Oh, oh yes!
- [Caroline] He'd be amazing to paint.
- [Gill] Oh, your style would be amazing!
- [Caroline] Yeah.
- [Gill] All right, shout out, who's got any contacts with David Lynch?
- [Caroline] Yeah. You could go strange with him.
- [Gill] Oh, yeah.
- [Caroline] It'd be like mandatory, yeah.
- [Gill] Have there been any major influences on the development of your style as an artist?
- [Caroline] Influences, yeah.
- [Gill] Well, could be people or films or a particular genre of arts or family members.
- [Caroline] No, definitely family members. If my mother didn't make me so neurotic, I might've been able to do finance or something.
- [Gill] Well, that would've been a loss.
- [Caroline] Yeah.
- [Gill] Thanks, Mum.
- [Caroline] Yeah, thanks, Mum, no. I mean, I have the artists that I really love, like, which are all quite traditional artists.
- [Gill] That's interesting.
- [Caroline] Yeah, but I, yeah, I think, I think like painting and art, so to speak, it's always sort of just been like an escape or a sort of salvation of sorts, and yeah. It went from, it turned into a occupation, so to speak, yeah.
- [Gill] I think that'll probably resonate with quite a few of our audience members today, participants. You don't take two hours out of your Saturday morning without being, getting something significant out of the idea of creation or creating something.
- [Caroline] Worried about the time adding colour.
- [Gill] Oh, I think it's been lovely for people to see your colour working progress, too.
- Really?
- Yeah, absolutely. It's two different settings. They don't have to be, you don't have to have finished products at the end. People have the journey. It's all about the journey, isn't it?
- Yes. The horror of the journey.
- [Gill] Horror of the journey.
- [Caroline] I'm waiting for the journey to not become horrid. Yeah, these pencils are soft enough that you can kind of mix the colours together with the actual, yeah, as you press them down slightly. What are most people, are most people using pencil or?
- [Gill] I'll let you know when they reply. Rowena has said to say, "Please tell Sonya she's a fantastically drawable model."
- [Caroline] Yes, beautiful.
- [Gill] Tiffany's using pencil. Oh, and a big apology to our Western Australia Zoom user. I'm sorry, I don't know, there's no name to refer to you as, so Zoom user. Apologies, yes, we do know that this is a terrible time for WA people, and normally we wouldn't have done our online workshop this way, but unfortunately, the tech team have another task, another event that they have to go to this afternoon, so we had to bring this one forward. But yes, definitely next time it'll be more of an afternoon session for the online ones. We don't like to disadvantage our WA friends. We've got a lot of pencil, Derwent drawing pencils, watercolour pencils.
- Ooh, nice.
- Prismacolor pencil, Inktense watercolour pencils.
- [Caroline] Ooh, Inktense, well.
- [Gill] Charcoal, pastel pencils, Polychromos pencils, lots of pencils. We've got pens and some water-soluble crayons. Oh, lots of different mixtures of pencils. Everyone's getting creative. That's exactly what we wanted. Linda's noticed that her drawings don't look anything like the model, but she supposes that's not an issue.
- [Caroline] No, as long as she's happy with the end result.
- Exactly.
- Sonya might not be happy. Yeah, I think it's, it depends on what your end result is like. I mean, if you're, just say you're giving your mom a portrait of her, you know, you may not want to, you know, you wanna be more precise, but if you're creating something that you're, you know, maybe gonna have at home or it's like the model is a springboard almost for a work. Yeah, I think, yeah, the main thing is to enjoy the process, if that's possible. Rarely is for me, but encouraging others. It's good that Sonya brought the clock, because every time I look at it, I'm reminded we're on the clock.
- [Gill] 17 minutes.
- [Caroline] 17 minutes, okay.
- [Gill] Oh, we've had a few comments from some people from WA who are happy with the early-morning start, that's interesting, good.
- [Caroline] And they have the rest of the day to-
- [Gill] Yeah, or you know, if they have to work, they can do a bit of creativity before heading into work. It's always been a very tricky thing for us, trying to work out what the best time is for these online workshops. But we're so grateful that people set aside the time, whatever time we put them on, to come in and be creative with us.
- [Caroline] Yeah, I think engagement in any kind of creative activity is always, is so, you get so much out of it. I do a live drawing, well, I attempt to, every Tuesday, and yeah, it's something very unique about sitting with a group of people all drawing, 'cause it is quite a solitary practise. So it's nice to have that, you know, engagement now and then.
- [Gill] Donna's wondering if you paint and draw other subjects like landscapes or still life as well as portraits.
- [Caroline] Yes, but not often. The people are, there's definitely the, one of the main elements in the work is always people.
- [Gill] Oh, okay.
- [Caroline] Yeah. I did, for the "Barren Land" series, I did a few landscapes, and they are, yeah, they included people in the end, yeah.
- [Gill] I love how you describe that.
- [Caroline] What?
- [Gill] That they just included people in the end, just sort of, that's where you ended up, with people.
- [Caroline] Yeah.
- [Gill] That encapsulates your process in a nutshell, I think. We've just had a comment on Facebook from your old art teacher, Leslie Snelgrove.
- [Caroline] Oh, hi, Mrs. Snelgrove!
- [Gill] She says she love, love, loves your work, and she's so enjoying to see the process again, oh.
- [Caroline] Thank you for tolerating me as a teenager. How long do we have? 17 minutes?
- [Gill] Well, we had 17 minutes three minutes ago, I think.
- Okay.
- No, it's about 14 minutes left.
- [Caroline] All right. Well, because I'm not familiar with these colours, I feel like I've made a horrendous mistake with the choice of the brown, and in 15 minutes, I'm not gonna be able to correct it, so.
- [Gill] You're gonna run into, run towards brown for this.
- [Caroline] Yeah, yeah, it's a bit too, anyway, see what happens.
- [Gill] It was meant to be.
- [Caroline] Yeah, let's hope.
- [Gill] Another question for our participants. I'm interested to hear, there's a few people I could see creating together. We were talking about it, you know, drawing being a solitary experience, or being an artist in general, being a bit lonely. But are there many people out there who have people that you can create with in your lives? Or do you tend to prefer to create in solitude, peace and quiet? Oh, with kids, lovely. I couldn't get my kids to sit still enough to create with me. Tina, we can be your tribe. With pets, with art group, oh, I love it.
- [Caroline] Oh, plenty.
- [Gill] Co-creating with a piece of inspiring music. Oh, Colleen, thank you, husband, for joining Colleen to paint, that's awesome. Shout out to Elsa. Thank you for drawing with Kit. Cats, do you have pets, Caroline?
- [Caroline] Yes, I have two dogs, and I feel like they get quite neglected. They sit under my easel while I paint. I feel like the only affection they get is when I drop a paint brush on them by accident.
- [Gill] Is one of your dogs, the picture that you have as part of the promo material? Is that one of your current-
- [Caroline] Yes, yes, that's Foxy.
- [Gill] Furry animals?
- [Caroline] Poor dog, yeah, he's-
- [Gill] Oh my gosh, he is, has the best expression. I can't imagine you owning any other dog. It's awesome.
- Yeah, he's so traumatised by all the paintings. So is everyone else. It's terrible. No, he's good company. He just sits there.
- [Gill] Oh, I missed a question, 'cause everybody chimed in with their awesome drawing preferences. Deidre was wondering, "You mentioned shadows before. Where would you put shadows on this drawing? Under the nose or chin or?"
- [Caroline] I've got a tiny bit of shadowing under the nose and around the, between the eye and the nose, the eyes and the nose. And I am attempting to shadow with the colours, so like where there's a darker red as as opposed to the lighter red and how hard I've pressed, and that went atrociously wrong there. But there's a bit of darkness in there as it gets lighter, and I'm making, although that's actually darker than that because I only have probably 11 minutes now, I'm just gonna shade it in light, yeah. Just to get a difference in colour, so there's a block of colour in there.
- Yeah.
- Yeah. What I envisaged in my mind was the, which you can't really get with a pencil, is the vibrancy of the, if I was painting this, I would do Sonya's milky, delightful skin and then the vibrancy of the red dress and then the slight nuance of the slightly browner lounge, which is still red but reddy-brown, yeah. And the shading is really just enough to make it look like a three-dimensional, bigger, yeah. If there's any other questions, I'm happy to...
- [Gill] Yeah, we have eight minutes, eight minutes left. So if anyone wants to throw any last-minute burning questions at Caroline. I'm adoring, we will send all of your comments through to Caroline afterwards. She doesn't get to see them. I'm relishing all of the contributions people have been putting in today. It's so fantastic to see all the variety. This is the thing, I think, that's the, the word that has struck me today, the diversity, of not only the creations but people's creating experience. That's just terrific.
- [Caroline] Yeah, it's an incredibly human experience, I think, it's uniquely human, creation.
- [Gill] Which is odd 'cause this is such a constructed environment that we're all working in via technology, but it does actually feel like there's quite a good deal of connection going on. Sally's wondering what the best advice you've ever received. I don't if that's in art or in life.
- [Caroline] Oh, best advice? When in doubt, don't. Well, oh god, in art or-
- I think, yeah, yeah, let's do art, otherwise it might get weird.
- Let's do art? Yeah, me too, I think the best advice I got was to actually, to do it, you know? Like, I think that I, yeah, there was a, when I was a, I was sort of forced to do it when I was younger at school, and then when it came to university, I was gonna do something else, and my godfather said, "If you don't do art now, you'll never go back and do it, and just do it now." And I think if that's your, what you wanna do, just do it. That's like, yeah, and let it work itself out sort of thing, yeah.
- [Gill] Excellent advice, godfather. I wish somebody had given me that advice once.
- [Caroline] And just do it daily, yeah. Other than that, the only advice I'd say is don't listen to any advice I give because it's very bad, the outcome is bad.
- [Gill] We've got five minutes left to go.
- [Caroline] Hush.
- [Gill] Probably. We have an observation that your style has eyes being quite high in the face and the jowl sort of been a bit larger than the forehead and was wondering about the evolution of that in your career?
- Complete mistakes. Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily intentional, to be honest. I haven't actually noticed that.
- [Gill] Have you seen your style develop or evolve over the years?
- [Caroline] I think it's refined a bit just with, yeah, it's, yeah. I think it's just refined a bit more just with the hours and hours of doing it.
- Yep.
- Yeah.
- [Gill] A couple more minutes, and then we'll give everybody the opportunity to share again, if that's okay. Sonya's leg might've gone to sleep.
- [Caroline] You all right, Sonya?
- [Caroline] Lizzie's wondering if you draw every day, Caroline. Is it working in the studio every day?
- [Caroline] Yeah, I don't, I do draw a lot, but I don't, if I'm painting, like, if I'm painting, I tend to paint the entire day. Yeah, but I'm in the studio every day.
- [Gill] Damien's wondering if you found the race against time, the time pressure we've put you under frustrating for your process.
- [Caroline] Yes.
- [Gill] We love frustrating you, sorry.
- [Caroline] No, it's okay. I think, yeah, it helps to know how much time you have in order to know what you can do, but you can always like, oh, like I can go home and do more, you know, like.
- [Gill] Yeah, I think, I mean, I think two hours is sort of a, it is a journey, isn't it? It's not about being able to get something finished down, but I'm hoping that people have managed to experiment a little bit. I reckon that's us, Caroline.
- Yeah?
- Yeah. I reckon, I'm gonna try and turn off these lights, and we're gonna have a little look, give Sonya a stretch, and if I turn down the lights a little bit on us, sorry, Marky, we look like we've gone into the dark. That means that when we come round, have a stretch, how's your leg? We can come round and have a little look up at this screen over here, and Mark might be able to get our shot behind us. I don't know if they can. Come in, Sonya, come in, and you can have a look, if people would like to hold up their creations.
- [Mark] Gill.
- Yes.
- Move forward.
- Oh, sorry.
- Keep coming forward.
- You just gotta shout at me if I'm in the wrong spot. Everyone's hiding behind me. Sonya's hiding behind me, come forward. Here we go.
- Wow, they're brilliant.
- [Gill] Oh, they're so good. Look at you! It's like, it's like looking at you through their eyes of a, is it a fly?
- [Caroline] Someone gave-
- [Gill] That doesn't sound very good, doesn't it?
- Someone gave you sunglasses.
- That's awesome.
- Which is very cool.
- Oh look, that's fantastic! Great work, everybody.
- Yeah, really incredible.
- Oh my gosh, I can see some hyper-real. I can see some painterly in there. This is terrific. Thank you so much, everyone. Please share, share, share with us if you feel comfortable, if you don't-
- Love Erica Campbell's. I'm just trying to see if that, the squares move around so fast, so it's, yeah. Jacques, yeah, trying to see. Harry's, I mean, they all look amazing. It's amazing that you can get, like, everyone's can look so different and so nuanced, you know?
- [Gill] Oh, nice one, Tina, that's terrific.
- Yeah.
- [Gill] And Paul, that's fantastic, too.
- Yeah, wow.
- [Gill] Look at them all. I can't call out everybody's names. They're all brilliant, Al's iPad there. Rosa.
- Wow.
- Yeah, I think it was-
- Michael. Thank you.
- a brilliant choice of dress colour.
- Ah, good work.
- As well.
- It was your choice.
- Yeah, oh, oops.
- [Gill] Oh, lovely, Irene.
- Yeah.
- [Gill] Oh, look at that punchy one up at the top there. We keep losing people's names.
- Yeah, and down, this one on the corner. Anyway, yeah, they're all brilliant, they're all...
- Thank you, everybody. All right, I'm afraid we're gonna have to say goodbye. I don't know which camera I'm looking at or where I am. There I am, that camera! So everyone's hiding behind me. On behalf of the National Portrait Gallery, thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. I tell you what, it's given me the energy to leap into my day, so I hope it's done the same for you as well. Thank you so much for being such a brilliant model for us today, Sonya. Everybody really enjoyed drawing you, and thank you, so much.
- Thank you. Thanks Sonya, thanks, Gillian.
- For all of your insights, for everything, Caroline, that was so much fun. Thank you, I really appreciate it, and I hope we haven't traumatised you too much.
- No, not at all, yeah.
- Thank you, everybody, please jump on our website, portrait.gov.au for all of the programmes that we've got coming up. Tag us, @portraitau, on social media so you can share all your wonderful drawings with us. And yeah, everybody's been asking about our recording, but we'll talk to you about that afterwards, and we'll see how we go. So thank you, everybody, and join us next time, please. We've loved having you, thank you. Take care, bye-bye.
