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I guess we can just start off easy
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by telling us a bit about yourself and your photography
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'cause you're quite an established photographer now,
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with a long career.
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I mean, basically I started,
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essentially as what was known as a cadet
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at the Melbourne Herald newspaper.
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So, I sort of went in
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literally as
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like a sheet kicker.
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Like, I was a darkroom hand.
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I originally wanted to be an illustrator
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but I decided that that was not gonna be a thing for me
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and I sort of fell in love with photography
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and then there was this sort of building,
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it's like, an advert for,
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well, what is now known as an internship
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but it was called a cadetship back in the day
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and it was, yeah, the Herald newspaper.
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So basically, I just sort of started in the dark room,
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printing other sort of photographers work.
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I didn't do anything except do that
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for the better part of maybe 18 months
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and it was a pretty horrible job but,
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(Tara laughing)
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but what it did do
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was teach me really, really good skills real quickly
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and I got to sort of, I was exposed to other photographers
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and so essentially that's kind of where everything started
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for me photography wise
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was literally, yeah, in the dark room printing other work
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for other photographers and then eventually,
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through persistence and me being very, sort of,
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like a squeaky wheel.
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Slowly they let me sort of do, you know, like the odd job
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and I do the odd shoot,
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but all the while I was still stuck in a darkroom.
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So yeah, that was kind of like
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where everything really sort of started
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and then I, sort of, left the Herald
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because it, sort of, shut, really, and merged
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and then the Sunday Age started
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and I sort of lept over there,
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but I was already a, not established photographer,
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but at least I had a full-time gig over there.
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So I was actually on Sunday Age for 10 years
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as a features photographer.
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But yeah, that was a really great 10 years in fact.
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I still kind of miss it, really.
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Yeah.
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So yeah,
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and then after that I, sort of, left and lept into magazines
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because again,
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the Sunday Age also, sort of, folded really.
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I mean, it wasn't an independent thing
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and it wasn't what once was
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and what was so great about it was that it was independent
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and then it sort of merged again
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and then, so yeah.
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Like I said, I went to magazines
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and yeah, started at the bottom all over again.
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Yeah.
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And now you sort of,
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you grew up this lovely balance with your work
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of commissions and your own personal practise as well,
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which can be hard to achieve.
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Like you seem really successful-
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Yeah.
In both.
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Yeah, it is.
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I mean, it looks good to have a foot in each camp,
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but it's difficult
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and
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trying to sort of satisfy both needs is also quite hard.
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But at the same time,
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I don't mind being a working photographer.
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Like, I do love just doing commissioned work
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as in magazine work.
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I'm still doing what I love doing.
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There's probably just not that same flexibility.
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Whereas if I'm doing something for myself or my own project
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or something like for the gallery or-
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Yeah.
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Where I sort of have carte blanche
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because I set my own set of rules,
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whereas if I'm shooting for magazines,
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there's art directors involved and there's editors involved.
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But at the same time, again,
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I quite like the structure of that
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and I like working to a brief.
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Sometimes I'm not good with a brief.
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(both laughing)
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I mind the briefs.
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I kind of like to be put in a room and say,
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this is kind of what you got to work with.
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If someone says here, do whatever you want.
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I start to panic.
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I mean, you've photographed so many people, as well.
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Like, looking through your website,
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it's so many fields like dance and actors and chefs and-
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Yeah.
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Just like so many faces in front of your camera.
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It's pretty amazing.
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Yeah.
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I think I was lucky with the newspaper
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because it wasn't just one thing.
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There was always a sort of a variety of things
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to do every day
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and that essentially, it sort of stuck with me, really.
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I never really got stuck in one area.
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I mean, I do like portrait of course,
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but I'm not strictly,
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I don't consider myself a portrait photographer per se
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but I'm equally happy doing,
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sort of, document work
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but it's not my, I sort of,
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I do hip hop, you know, and leap from one thing
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to the other.
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So I think that's probably why I have a broad, you know,
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that there's a breadth of the work
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because I've never locked myself into one particular area.
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And plus if I do that, it doesn't work.
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Work-wise I have to be flexible
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and be able to work across a lot of different things
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otherwise, you know, I'll make no money.
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Yeah. And taking on those challenges sometimes is,
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you know, puts you out of your comfort zone
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and you learn and grow.
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Yeah, yeah, totally.
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I mean the only thing that I'm probably not
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is a landscape photographer.
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I do like humans, you know.
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Mm.
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You know, there's times that I do like that solitude,
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but I do like having
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that sort of connection
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with people and it doesn't have to be one-on-one.
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I do love one-on-one-
Yeah.
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But it doesn't necessarily,
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that's not, sort of, exclusively that.
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It's interesting though,
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'cause "Tom at the Drain" is as much a landscape
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as it is a portrait or figurative piece,
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like the landscape-
Yeah.
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Sets the mood and features so heavily
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in creating that mood that it has in it.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It just has a figure in it and a portrait in it.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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It's a tricky one because, you know,
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I sort of oscillate between loving having that, sort of,
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having someone on the tension,
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but then at the same time,
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I can see where I lean on my, sort of,
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past photography where it's, sort of,
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documentary work where I can see where I'm led
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and then, you know, I can have,
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like when I took that picture of Tom,
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I didn't know whether it was strictly taking a portrait.
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It felt kind of strange at the time
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because it, sort of, unfolded
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and yeah, I was in charge of taking that shot
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and I made the shot happen,
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but it didn't feel like say,
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you know, the Stephen Heathcote portrait
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where I'm, sort of, standing there saying, "Do this."
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I'm controlling the lighting.
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There was more variables
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and that it was just a nice kind of thing
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that came together, I think.
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It's interesting as well with portraiture,
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the sort of formalities of it,
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or perceptions of it are changing.
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Hundreds. I would agree with that, yeah.
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Yeah.
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And it might even be, you know,
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social media and availability and the quickness of images,
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but people-
Mm.
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And just changing society, I guess,
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that people are starting to steer towards more open forms
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of portraiture rather than just the,
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this one.
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(Tara laughing)
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Yeah. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
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Sit up straight. Smile.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, and I'm sure that people have varying
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opinions on that.
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I don't have any strict opinions on it.
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I just think at the end of the day,
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my thing is if it's an engaging image
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and there is a semblance of a human being then
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it could well be a portrait.
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I don't know what those parameters are.
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I sort of wrestle with it, to be honest.
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But I don't go into a photo saying it has to be
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of a certain way to make it be a portrait.
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I just like to be interesting and engaging,
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like you said, and then,
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maybe that's all it needs to be.
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It's, sort of, storytelling as well and-
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Yeah.
Yeah.
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It's a mix, it's a strange thing.
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So do you want to tell us a little bit more
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about your highly commended work (faintly speaking),
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so the (indistinct)?
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I knew you were gonna ask me.
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Got to throw in that highly commended.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you.
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(Tara laughing)
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It was, kind of not sure where to start.
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It was something that,
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that action space where I took the picture,
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I'd watch that for maybe five years
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because it changes, the light changes
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and then kids would always be playing constantly.
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And for years and years,
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and I was actually,
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I'd ride my bike past there,
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probably every day for the last four or five years
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and it's this tidal area where it runs off into the water
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and it stuck with me and it stuck with me
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and, actually, Tom is actually a family friend of ours.
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I think a lot of people thought he was my son,
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but he's not.
Yeah.
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But he was a family friend
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and it just happened to be,
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it coincided with COVID as what was kind of the brief
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but
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he was, sort of, hanging around there
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and he was kind of losing his mind a little bit,
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being stuck at home and there was, you know,
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that inch of time we were allowed to go out.
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Yeah.
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So I just said, "Well, I'm just gonna go down there
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and hang around with my camera"
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and said, "Why don't you come down?"
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And then all of a sudden, sort of, like the light dropped,
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every kid that was playing there disappeared,
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it became very, very quiet
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and then it was just kind of Tom and I
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and he was just sort of playing around
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and there was just this kid off to the side
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and he was sort of goading and Tom with these rocks
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and he was throwing them at him.
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And what was happening was as each rock
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was hitting the water, it was doing that little-
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Ripples.
Yeah.
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And I said to Tom, I said, "Right."
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I said, "Wait, wait, wait, wait."
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So I said, "Tom, just hang there for a bit
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and let this kid annoy you."
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And he was throwing these rocks
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and then I, sort of, got maybe three frames on the 5x4
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and not knowing what I was getting
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because I, sort, of put the dark side in.
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I did one frame, I did another, and I was sort of,
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all I was doing was just sort of guiding
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and trying for this area of light.
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And then you see this little bit
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where he's, sort of, scooched under
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and I just said to him, I said,
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"Can you just hold that"
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and I was fumbling around the film
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and pulled the dark side and then just, sort of,
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(faintly speaking)
266
00:11:04.487 --> 00:11:05.683
and I actually yelled at the kid.
267
00:11:05.683 --> 00:11:07.516
I said, "Throw a rock at him."
268
00:11:07.516 --> 00:11:10.183
(Tara laughing)
269
00:11:11.349 --> 00:11:12.888
And what I loved about it was a, sort of like,
270
00:11:12.888 --> 00:11:16.388
a bit of a, like a cinematic little moment
271
00:11:17.488 --> 00:11:18.830
and then it was gone, you know?
272
00:11:18.830 --> 00:11:20.901
The kid had gone and the light had changed
273
00:11:20.901 --> 00:11:22.614
and it was just one of those things
274
00:11:22.614 --> 00:11:25.340
where it was a kind of like a beautiful,
275
00:11:25.340 --> 00:11:27.107
like a little thing
276
00:11:27.107 --> 00:11:32.067
and I didn't think too much about it being portrait or,
277
00:11:32.067 --> 00:11:34.874
I thought I had something nice.
278
00:11:34.874 --> 00:11:37.352
So I just kind of went home and, you know,
279
00:11:37.352 --> 00:11:40.034
thoroughly sort of processed it and, you know,
280
00:11:40.034 --> 00:11:42.698
and I had, in the end I think I had four dark slides
281
00:11:42.698 --> 00:11:45.781
and I sort of chose that one because,
282
00:11:46.871 --> 00:11:48.117
what we were saying,
283
00:11:48.117 --> 00:11:50.784
he wasn't looking at the camera.
284
00:11:52.523 --> 00:11:54.358
Yeah, it looked more cinematic
285
00:11:54.358 --> 00:11:58.211
and like I've taken a little slice out of time,
286
00:11:58.211 --> 00:12:00.031
rather than set something up.
287
00:12:00.031 --> 00:12:03.265
Even though I did have control of the situation,
288
00:12:03.265 --> 00:12:06.071
it looked a bit more natural and yeah,
289
00:12:06.071 --> 00:12:07.807
that's kind of what appealed to me
290
00:12:07.807 --> 00:12:10.750
is that it looked like it was, you know,
291
00:12:10.750 --> 00:12:12.736
like this little moment, which it was.
292
00:12:12.736 --> 00:12:16.399
But I was, you know, leading the dance a little.
293
00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:17.232
Yeah.
294
00:12:18.482 --> 00:12:19.929
It's really an interesting photo
295
00:12:19.929 --> 00:12:22.844
to sort of hear people talk about
296
00:12:22.844 --> 00:12:24.578
or their perceptions of it as well.
297
00:12:24.578 --> 00:12:26.156
Like, you and I have spoken a little bit
298
00:12:26.156 --> 00:12:27.505
about the judge's feedback
299
00:12:27.505 --> 00:12:30.266
and all the wonderful feedback you got, you know,
300
00:12:30.266 --> 00:12:32.785
with that really high horizon and the darker-
301
00:12:32.785 --> 00:12:34.191
Yeah. Yep.
302
00:12:34.191 --> 00:12:36.721
You know, it was interesting in the judging
303
00:12:36.721 --> 00:12:39.132
that even though it's called "Tom at the Drain,"
304
00:12:39.132 --> 00:12:41.640
it wasn't 'til, you know-
Oh, yeah.
305
00:12:41.640 --> 00:12:42.977
I think that last round of judging
306
00:12:42.977 --> 00:12:45.810
and it was like, oh, you know, about the rocks, the rock.
307
00:12:45.810 --> 00:12:46.643
And I said-
Yeah!
308
00:12:46.643 --> 00:12:48.131
Oh, "It's a drain. It's like a drain pipe."
309
00:12:48.131 --> 00:12:49.379
And they were like, "Oh."
310
00:12:49.379 --> 00:12:51.359
'cause it just looks like this big round rock
311
00:12:51.359 --> 00:12:52.512
and then-
Yeah.
312
00:12:52.512 --> 00:12:54.920
The ripples, all those beautiful round shapes
313
00:12:54.920 --> 00:12:57.726
but then people's different perceptions
314
00:12:57.726 --> 00:13:00.070
of the look on Tom's face as well.
315
00:13:00.070 --> 00:13:01.935
Like, some people saw apprehension
316
00:13:01.935 --> 00:13:03.157
and then other people are like,
317
00:13:03.157 --> 00:13:05.274
"Oh, no. Like, he's looking up into the future."
318
00:13:05.274 --> 00:13:06.107
(Julian laughing)
319
00:13:06.107 --> 00:13:08.192
Like, it's so interesting.
320
00:13:08.192 --> 00:13:09.787
I think it's one of those portraits
321
00:13:09.787 --> 00:13:11.452
that you can tell your own story from.
322
00:13:11.452 --> 00:13:14.882
Like you said, a cinematic one, as well.
323
00:13:14.882 --> 00:13:15.715
Yeah.
324
00:13:17.803 --> 00:13:20.589
Yeah, I guess everything's up for interpretation, clearly.
325
00:13:20.589 --> 00:13:22.642
I mean, sometimes it's kind of nice
326
00:13:22.642 --> 00:13:25.725
to not know too much about something,
327
00:13:27.451 --> 00:13:31.174
but yeah, I mean, in terms of the image,
328
00:13:31.174 --> 00:13:33.021
that was the mechanics of the day.
329
00:13:33.021 --> 00:13:35.771
That's kind of how it played out.
330
00:13:36.842 --> 00:13:41.842
But yeah, it was only because I wasn't shooting digitally.
331
00:13:42.467 --> 00:13:47.257
There was only a few things that I knew were happening
332
00:13:47.257 --> 00:13:49.398
and it was just sort of fortuitous, I think,
333
00:13:49.398 --> 00:13:51.340
because it could have gone either way.
334
00:13:51.340 --> 00:13:54.532
I don't know what it was about that particular image
335
00:13:54.532 --> 00:13:57.523
that makes it what it is but,
336
00:13:57.523 --> 00:13:59.315
there's quite a few things,
337
00:13:59.315 --> 00:14:00.920
but I think that
338
00:14:00.920 --> 00:14:04.005
had the little kid that wasn't playing there,
339
00:14:04.005 --> 00:14:07.541
throwing the rocks, I wouldn't have had that and,
340
00:14:07.541 --> 00:14:10.248
so.
Thank goodness for ratbags.
341
00:14:10.248 --> 00:14:11.351
Totally, thank goodness.
342
00:14:11.351 --> 00:14:13.727
(both laughing)
343
00:14:13.727 --> 00:14:14.887
Thank God for COVID.
344
00:14:14.887 --> 00:14:15.990
(both laughing)
345
00:14:15.990 --> 00:14:17.938
To be honest too 'cause if it wasn't COVID
346
00:14:17.938 --> 00:14:20.617
that area would have been
347
00:14:20.617 --> 00:14:21.450
just-
Yeah.
348
00:14:21.450 --> 00:14:23.171
With humans.
349
00:14:23.171 --> 00:14:24.004
Yeah.
And yeah.
350
00:14:24.004 --> 00:14:27.430
It was like, I do love quiet looking photography
351
00:14:27.430 --> 00:14:30.597
and so played into my hands perfectly.
352
00:14:31.529 --> 00:14:32.362
Yeah.
353
00:14:32.362 --> 00:14:34.336
Yeah. It is one of those things,
354
00:14:34.336 --> 00:14:37.706
like the impact on the environment of less humans is-
355
00:14:37.706 --> 00:14:39.684
A hundred percent.
Incredible at this time.
356
00:14:39.684 --> 00:14:42.734
Yeah, yeah. Coming out of lockdown, it's frightening.
357
00:14:42.734 --> 00:14:44.317
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
358
00:14:45.463 --> 00:14:48.058
It's gonna be interesting.
Mm.
359
00:14:48.058 --> 00:14:51.273
So you've been in the prize, as we said, like three times.
360
00:14:51.273 --> 00:14:52.720
And prizes in general.
361
00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:56.659
What do you think, like not just so much Living Memory.
362
00:14:56.659 --> 00:14:58.800
I mean, it's great for highly commended
363
00:14:58.800 --> 00:15:01.454
and I know you admire Bill Henson's work,
364
00:15:01.454 --> 00:15:03.361
but what do you think like, being in prizes
365
00:15:03.361 --> 00:15:07.444
and recognised does for your photographic career?
366
00:15:08.657 --> 00:15:10.547
To be honest, Tara, it's a bit of a tricky one for me
367
00:15:10.547 --> 00:15:15.130
because every time it comes around I'm sort of hesitant
368
00:15:16.526 --> 00:15:19.042
and it's not because I don't want to put anything in.
369
00:15:19.042 --> 00:15:22.577
I think that I'm probably quite insecure
370
00:15:22.577 --> 00:15:26.403
about putting stuff out there that's personal.
371
00:15:26.403 --> 00:15:29.143
I can hide behind magazine work
372
00:15:29.143 --> 00:15:30.976
and my day-to-day work
373
00:15:32.241 --> 00:15:35.408
because I can say it was commissioned.
374
00:15:37.129 --> 00:15:38.645
It had to be a certain way
375
00:15:38.645 --> 00:15:40.609
so that's kind of like an escape route for me.
376
00:15:40.609 --> 00:15:42.864
But when it's so personal,
377
00:15:42.864 --> 00:15:45.322
I get a little bit, sort of, scared
378
00:15:45.322 --> 00:15:48.665
to put it up there because there's kind of nowhere to hide.
379
00:15:48.665 --> 00:15:49.623
(Julian chuckling)
380
00:15:49.623 --> 00:15:50.790
Yeah.
381
00:15:52.465 --> 00:15:57.132
But I'm grateful because I think that what you guys do
382
00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:03.427
is incredible 'cause it opens a door for, you know, anyone.
383
00:16:03.427 --> 00:16:04.260
But you don't have
384
00:16:04.260 --> 00:16:08.508
to be a professional working photographer, like myself.
385
00:16:08.508 --> 00:16:09.481
It just goes to show
386
00:16:09.481 --> 00:16:13.478
that there's lots of great photographers out there
387
00:16:13.478 --> 00:16:16.653
that don't necessarily have a job to go to like,
388
00:16:16.653 --> 00:16:18.486
kind of, I do.
Yeah.
389
00:16:21.070 --> 00:16:23.673
Yeah, I love that component of it
390
00:16:23.673 --> 00:16:27.107
but I personally have this sort of,
391
00:16:27.107 --> 00:16:30.357
this kind of fear, which is ridiculous,
392
00:16:31.941 --> 00:16:34.328
but it's probably just that sort of vulnerability
393
00:16:34.328 --> 00:16:35.589
of opening,
394
00:16:35.589 --> 00:16:38.765
and then you wanna short-listed
395
00:16:38.765 --> 00:16:41.285
and then you do and you go, "Oh shit!"
396
00:16:41.285 --> 00:16:42.118
Yeah.
397
00:16:42.118 --> 00:16:43.611
(Julian laughing)
398
00:16:43.611 --> 00:16:46.208
It's funny, yeah. I talked a little bit about it
399
00:16:46.208 --> 00:16:49.379
when we did the live stream of the judging
400
00:16:49.379 --> 00:16:50.554
and stuff like that.
401
00:16:50.554 --> 00:16:52.822
Vulnerability, 'cause it don't think people realise.
402
00:16:52.822 --> 00:16:54.509
Like, you are putting yourself out there to be judged
403
00:16:54.509 --> 00:16:56.883
and I think it's really important,
404
00:16:56.883 --> 00:17:00.024
like, someone of your calibre as well,
405
00:17:00.024 --> 00:17:01.146
still feels that.
406
00:17:01.146 --> 00:17:02.857
For other people to know, you know.
407
00:17:02.857 --> 00:17:04.693
Oh. Oh, like a hundred percent.
408
00:17:04.693 --> 00:17:07.026
Like, it rules my brain more
409
00:17:09.409 --> 00:17:11.742
than anything, to be honest.
410
00:17:13.735 --> 00:17:14.818
It's a scary thing.
411
00:17:14.818 --> 00:17:17.191
And the other thing is that you, sort of,
412
00:17:17.191 --> 00:17:19.793
then you're, sort of, putting stuff up to be scrutinised
413
00:17:19.793 --> 00:17:22.626
because that's how it's got to work.
414
00:17:22.626 --> 00:17:24.866
It's public and yeah-
Yeah, it has to.
415
00:17:24.866 --> 00:17:28.033
And yeah, like when I saw Bill Henson,
416
00:17:29.141 --> 00:17:30.948
who I've admired for years and years and years,
417
00:17:30.948 --> 00:17:32.873
when I saw he was one of the judges,
418
00:17:32.873 --> 00:17:35.797
I thought to myself, "I'm a goner."
419
00:17:35.797 --> 00:17:38.414
(both laughing)
420
00:17:38.414 --> 00:17:41.209
I really didn't think I'd get anywhere.
421
00:17:41.209 --> 00:17:43.635
I thought he would just take two looks at that shot
422
00:17:43.635 --> 00:17:45.218
and go, well, pshh.
423
00:17:46.330 --> 00:17:48.139
So I was, you know.
424
00:17:48.139 --> 00:17:49.510
I was
425
00:17:49.510 --> 00:17:50.343
so happy
426
00:17:50.343 --> 00:17:51.176
because
427
00:17:53.478 --> 00:17:57.556
it felt inclusive in a world that I love, you know.
428
00:17:57.556 --> 00:18:00.644
I love his work and so, fanboy.
429
00:18:00.644 --> 00:18:02.016
(both laughing)
430
00:18:02.016 --> 00:18:03.961
I'm a fangirl too, he's amazing too.
431
00:18:03.961 --> 00:18:05.544
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
432
00:18:06.827 --> 00:18:08.505
Yeah, it's interesting 'cause artists
433
00:18:08.505 --> 00:18:11.522
are their own harshest critics, I think.
434
00:18:11.522 --> 00:18:13.605
Yeah. Yeah. I think so.
435
00:18:14.957 --> 00:18:17.729
I'd be lying if I done, you know,
436
00:18:17.729 --> 00:18:20.119
I've been doing sort of photos
437
00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:21.855
for the better part of 30 years
438
00:18:21.855 --> 00:18:25.438
and I still kind of will go to bed at night
439
00:18:26.360 --> 00:18:28.970
and not sleep, you know, based on a shoot
440
00:18:28.970 --> 00:18:32.541
and just worry incessantly about,
441
00:18:32.541 --> 00:18:35.203
it's not gonna work, it's not gonna look any good
442
00:18:35.203 --> 00:18:36.286
and you know,
443
00:18:37.671 --> 00:18:41.404
I don't know that I'll ever get away from that.
444
00:18:41.404 --> 00:18:42.484
I really don't.
445
00:18:42.484 --> 00:18:45.140
I think at this point, if it's not gonna,
446
00:18:45.140 --> 00:18:46.536
it hasn't gone away.
447
00:18:46.536 --> 00:18:48.501
I just get better at managing my anxiety.
448
00:18:48.501 --> 00:18:50.809
Yeah. Or hiding it.
449
00:18:50.809 --> 00:18:53.363
Hiding it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
450
00:18:53.363 --> 00:18:54.330
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
451
00:18:54.330 --> 00:18:55.866
(both laughing)
452
00:18:55.866 --> 00:18:58.011
Yeah. It's interesting 'cause I don't know,
453
00:18:58.011 --> 00:18:59.526
like, it's quite philosophical,
454
00:18:59.526 --> 00:19:01.327
but would you wanna change it this stage?
455
00:19:01.327 --> 00:19:02.618
Would that make you-
No!
456
00:19:02.618 --> 00:19:03.970
Not who you are anymore
457
00:19:03.970 --> 00:19:06.562
or that perfectionism would diminish?
458
00:19:06.562 --> 00:19:07.575
Yeah, I think so.
459
00:19:07.575 --> 00:19:10.613
I think in a weird way, I sort of rely on it now.
460
00:19:10.613 --> 00:19:11.906
It's a kind of an area, I mean,
461
00:19:11.906 --> 00:19:13.736
it sounds a bit pretentious
462
00:19:13.736 --> 00:19:16.307
but I sort of go-
No.
463
00:19:16.307 --> 00:19:21.307
Oh, I think if I didn't have the fear, I'd probably,
464
00:19:21.355 --> 00:19:23.438
maybe I'd be a bit,
465
00:19:23.438 --> 00:19:24.271
I dunno.
466
00:19:24.271 --> 00:19:28.162
Maybe I wouldn't put as much effort in or-
467
00:19:28.162 --> 00:19:29.867
Yeah.
468
00:19:29.867 --> 00:19:31.759
I do think it's a common.
469
00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:34.015
I agree. And not just, you know, in the arts as well.
470
00:19:34.015 --> 00:19:36.314
Like, I think people that strive for excellence,
471
00:19:36.314 --> 00:19:37.980
like-
Yeah.
472
00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:40.220
I've got a background as a professional athlete
473
00:19:40.220 --> 00:19:42.571
and that-
Who? You do?
474
00:19:42.571 --> 00:19:43.977
Yeah.
Really?
475
00:19:43.977 --> 00:19:44.810
Yeah.
476
00:19:45.705 --> 00:19:50.347
So in that past life, your insecurities of competing-
477
00:19:50.347 --> 00:19:52.682
You've got your own.
I view to that next level
478
00:19:52.682 --> 00:19:57.015
of, you know, the pursuit of perfectionism, I guess.
479
00:19:59.489 --> 00:20:02.066
So if I look back at that and I'm like, well,
480
00:20:02.066 --> 00:20:05.425
would I have I achieved what I,
481
00:20:05.425 --> 00:20:08.611
like, what I did without being so harsh on myself?
482
00:20:08.611 --> 00:20:10.154
Probably not.
483
00:20:10.154 --> 00:20:10.987
Probably not.
484
00:20:10.987 --> 00:20:12.134
And like, yeah.
485
00:20:12.134 --> 00:20:15.511
And like I said, and like what you to said then,
486
00:20:15.511 --> 00:20:18.379
clearly it's a common trait.
Mm.
487
00:20:18.379 --> 00:20:19.212
And
488
00:20:20.587 --> 00:20:22.920
yeah, I am 100% a perfectionist,
489
00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:25.260
but not with other people, just-
490
00:20:25.260 --> 00:20:26.510
Yeah, me too.
491
00:20:27.735 --> 00:20:30.735
It's A-types.
Oh, yeah. This is me.
492
00:20:32.434 --> 00:20:35.434
I'll just ruthlessly judge myself.
493
00:20:36.891 --> 00:20:40.597
I berate myself and just say, "My work is shit.
494
00:20:40.597 --> 00:20:42.878
Just put the camera away."
495
00:20:42.878 --> 00:20:44.471
I think-
But, I know,
496
00:20:44.471 --> 00:20:47.266
it's a strange thing and it always sounds like you,
497
00:20:47.266 --> 00:20:49.431
sort of, you know, you're fishing for compliments,
498
00:20:49.431 --> 00:20:51.078
but it's really not that it's just-
499
00:20:51.078 --> 00:20:52.728
Yeah.
It truly,
500
00:20:52.728 --> 00:20:53.811
it's a proper fear.
501
00:20:53.811 --> 00:20:54.977
It's like, don't compliment me,
502
00:20:54.977 --> 00:20:57.358
that makes it worse.
Don't, don't.
503
00:20:57.358 --> 00:20:58.191
Please don't.
504
00:20:58.191 --> 00:21:00.674
(both laughing)
505
00:21:00.674 --> 00:21:02.752
All right. So how do you reckon,
506
00:21:02.752 --> 00:21:05.088
I mean, it sounds pretty obvious for you,
507
00:21:05.088 --> 00:21:06.158
but how has lockdowns
508
00:21:06.158 --> 00:21:08.561
and changes in the world affected your practise
509
00:21:08.561 --> 00:21:10.353
and the way you approach photography?
510
00:21:10.353 --> 00:21:13.603
I guess, professionally and personally?
511
00:21:16.271 --> 00:21:18.354
Personally, not so much
512
00:21:19.688 --> 00:21:22.077
to be honest because,
513
00:21:22.077 --> 00:21:25.225
you know, the concept of working from home,
514
00:21:25.225 --> 00:21:28.058
I've been doing for 15 plus years,
515
00:21:29.972 --> 00:21:32.000
so that bit didn't feel,
516
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:34.386
and still doesn't feel strange
517
00:21:34.386 --> 00:21:35.252
at all.
518
00:21:35.252 --> 00:21:36.723
The only thing that feels,
519
00:21:36.723 --> 00:21:39.176
and the only thing that was alarming and still is,
520
00:21:39.176 --> 00:21:40.009
is how,
521
00:21:41.296 --> 00:21:43.216
particularly 2020,
522
00:21:43.216 --> 00:21:45.191
say March last year-
523
00:21:45.191 --> 00:21:46.024
Mm.
524
00:21:46.024 --> 00:21:48.246
It went from, you know,
525
00:21:48.246 --> 00:21:51.044
being a freelancer and trying to navigate that world
526
00:21:51.044 --> 00:21:54.244
and then all of a sudden someone's turned the tap off
527
00:21:54.244 --> 00:21:56.527
and work stopped, you know.
528
00:21:56.527 --> 00:22:01.527
So that was distressing just from a practical point of view
529
00:22:01.685 --> 00:22:03.870
because earning money.
Yeah.
530
00:22:03.870 --> 00:22:05.033
And along with other people,
531
00:22:05.033 --> 00:22:06.825
particularly people in hospitality
532
00:22:06.825 --> 00:22:11.060
and because my work involves human beings.
533
00:22:11.060 --> 00:22:11.893
Mm.
534
00:22:13.524 --> 00:22:14.564
Yeah.
535
00:22:14.564 --> 00:22:16.628
You got family and-
536
00:22:16.628 --> 00:22:17.591
Yeah. Yeah.
537
00:22:17.591 --> 00:22:18.424
So,
538
00:22:19.765 --> 00:22:21.894
you know, I didn't, you know,
539
00:22:21.894 --> 00:22:22.727
it's not like I was an accountant
540
00:22:22.727 --> 00:22:24.162
and I could still work from home
541
00:22:24.162 --> 00:22:25.536
and still make a living.
542
00:22:25.536 --> 00:22:29.009
So from that point of view, that was, you know,
543
00:22:29.009 --> 00:22:29.842
that was pretty horrific
544
00:22:29.842 --> 00:22:33.294
and still, sort of, is continuing to be horrific
545
00:22:33.294 --> 00:22:35.211
but the upshot is that,
546
00:22:37.332 --> 00:22:40.873
you know, the cliche of, sort of,
547
00:22:40.873 --> 00:22:44.171
reflecting on work past, present, future,
548
00:22:44.171 --> 00:22:45.451
but particularly past.
549
00:22:45.451 --> 00:22:50.034
I managed to sort of find what really inspires me truly
550
00:22:51.739 --> 00:22:55.836
and I had time to really have a good think about that
551
00:22:55.836 --> 00:22:58.709
and it was funny how my thought process
552
00:22:58.709 --> 00:23:02.080
went full circle back to when I was on the newspaper
553
00:23:02.080 --> 00:23:04.336
and how lucky I was to do that
554
00:23:04.336 --> 00:23:08.836
and how that was such a good time in my life work-wise
555
00:23:10.489 --> 00:23:11.759
and I realised what it was
556
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:15.582
that I loved about my actual photography
557
00:23:15.582 --> 00:23:16.652
and it was actually quite simple
558
00:23:16.652 --> 00:23:19.659
and it was just me, the camera
559
00:23:19.659 --> 00:23:22.419
and anybody who's prepared to be in front of it.
560
00:23:22.419 --> 00:23:23.793
It was, you know, just really,
561
00:23:23.793 --> 00:23:25.861
sort of simplified my thought process.
562
00:23:25.861 --> 00:23:29.037
I didn't feel like I had to have covers of magazines
563
00:23:29.037 --> 00:23:31.536
and having sort of high octane work,
564
00:23:31.536 --> 00:23:34.684
I just loved the practise of being a photographer
565
00:23:34.684 --> 00:23:37.343
and it just was a nice thing to, sort of,
566
00:23:37.343 --> 00:23:40.010
remember, that I had a good job,
567
00:23:42.433 --> 00:23:44.161
you know, for columns
568
00:23:44.161 --> 00:23:48.778
and so COVID was a nice reminder that I love what I do,
569
00:23:48.778 --> 00:23:53.520
even though we're all traumatised by what's going on.
570
00:23:53.520 --> 00:23:55.852
Still kind of are, so.
571
00:23:55.852 --> 00:23:58.790
And then when Living Memory came around,
572
00:23:58.790 --> 00:24:03.059
it just fell into a really nice time in my head space,
573
00:24:03.059 --> 00:24:03.892
so.
574
00:24:04.803 --> 00:24:07.595
Yeah. So now I'm grateful that I entered.
575
00:24:07.595 --> 00:24:08.632
(Julian laughing)
576
00:24:08.632 --> 00:24:10.670
You know.
Yeah.
577
00:24:10.670 --> 00:24:14.057
Yeah. I was in a good space, even though,
578
00:24:14.057 --> 00:24:16.861
you know, mentally in one camp,
579
00:24:16.861 --> 00:24:19.651
I was worried about the future of earning
580
00:24:19.651 --> 00:24:22.440
But then at the same time, I sort of found another love,
581
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:25.706
like I fell in love with photography all over again.
582
00:24:25.706 --> 00:24:26.895
Yeah.
Yeah.
583
00:24:26.895 --> 00:24:27.728
Hmm.
584
00:24:27.728 --> 00:24:29.973
It's been a common theme, I think.
585
00:24:29.973 --> 00:24:30.806
I think it has.
586
00:24:30.806 --> 00:24:33.656
That slowing down, you get so caught up
587
00:24:33.656 --> 00:24:36.118
on that mouse wheel or hamster wheel
588
00:24:36.118 --> 00:24:39.675
of continuation to stop and reflect.
589
00:24:39.675 --> 00:24:40.763
Yeah. Yeah.
590
00:24:40.763 --> 00:24:44.076
And the hamster wheel was one that was, you know,
591
00:24:44.076 --> 00:24:47.187
everyone seems to have slowed
592
00:24:47.187 --> 00:24:50.687
and is trying to teaching people's habits.
593
00:24:52.738 --> 00:24:53.957
Yeah.
594
00:24:53.957 --> 00:24:56.219
Like, I think I was emailing you about how I work
595
00:24:56.219 --> 00:24:57.636
in that art store
596
00:24:59.323 --> 00:25:00.287
and, you know, a lot of people-
597
00:25:00.287 --> 00:25:01.603
Yeah, yeah, I love that store, actually.
598
00:25:01.603 --> 00:25:02.899
To the arts and-
Yeah.
599
00:25:02.899 --> 00:25:06.233
You know, writing letters and just,
600
00:25:06.233 --> 00:25:07.197
yeah, it's-
601
00:25:07.197 --> 00:25:09.407
And that's, sort of, nice human interaction,
602
00:25:09.407 --> 00:25:12.819
rather than just, you know, quick bits of social media
603
00:25:12.819 --> 00:25:15.280
or a little, you know, it was-
604
00:25:15.280 --> 00:25:16.897
Yeah.
605
00:25:16.897 --> 00:25:20.234
Yeah. Like I said, it's a common story.
606
00:25:20.234 --> 00:25:21.731
It's not exclusive to me,
607
00:25:21.731 --> 00:25:25.564
but I did love knowing that my, sort of, past,
608
00:25:27.288 --> 00:25:31.567
sort of, had looped back around and re-inspired me
609
00:25:31.567 --> 00:25:32.496
in a different way
610
00:25:32.496 --> 00:25:36.241
and now I approach my photography completely different,
611
00:25:36.241 --> 00:25:37.991
as a result of COVID,
612
00:25:39.375 --> 00:25:42.384
mixed in with this prize, to be honest.
613
00:25:42.384 --> 00:25:44.589
Yeah. That's amazing and-
614
00:25:44.589 --> 00:25:46.139
Yeah, it was kind of nice.
615
00:25:46.139 --> 00:25:49.128
It was a nice theme that you guys had-
616
00:25:49.128 --> 00:25:50.257
Yeah.
To work to.
617
00:25:50.257 --> 00:25:51.672
It was kind of like, yeah.
618
00:25:51.672 --> 00:25:54.363
Well, I mean, you know, with that one,
619
00:25:54.363 --> 00:25:56.318
as well with, you know,
620
00:25:56.318 --> 00:25:58.961
it was just such a crazy time with everything
621
00:25:58.961 --> 00:26:00.127
that happened in Australia.
622
00:26:00.127 --> 00:26:01.113
I know, COVID's worldwide,
623
00:26:01.113 --> 00:26:02.433
but we'd been through the fires
624
00:26:02.433 --> 00:26:04.340
and all this,
625
00:26:04.340 --> 00:26:07.506
it just felt amiss to not address
626
00:26:07.506 --> 00:26:10.394
how that's affected artists as well, you know,
627
00:26:10.394 --> 00:26:11.990
so we sort of done the mentorships
628
00:26:11.990 --> 00:26:16.157
and the payment fee and all of that sort of stuff.
629
00:26:17.412 --> 00:26:20.119
Yeah. So it was a good theme to have, I think,
630
00:26:20.119 --> 00:26:22.104
a loose theme and the interpretations
631
00:26:22.104 --> 00:26:23.654
that came through from it were-
632
00:26:23.654 --> 00:26:25.657
Yeah. Yeah, it was really great.
633
00:26:25.657 --> 00:26:30.657
It was a nice way to, sort of, unveil the way people saw it,
634
00:26:32.381 --> 00:26:35.382
or interpreted it, or whatever.
635
00:26:35.382 --> 00:26:37.985
And so many little moments in there, you know?
636
00:26:37.985 --> 00:26:41.697
We've all seen the really big moments that are, you know,
637
00:26:41.697 --> 00:26:43.038
you're bombarded with,
638
00:26:43.038 --> 00:26:45.257
but some of those little moments are some
639
00:26:45.257 --> 00:26:46.953
of the most important ones.
640
00:26:46.953 --> 00:26:51.953
Yeah, but the nuances of it were what, sort of, struck me.
641
00:26:52.386 --> 00:26:55.468
It's nice to see the in between, like you said,
642
00:26:55.468 --> 00:26:57.635
the big impact stuff-
Mm.
643
00:26:58.701 --> 00:27:02.600
Those little, you know, nuances in between the big stuff
644
00:27:02.600 --> 00:27:07.139
is what often what I find interesting, you know,
645
00:27:07.139 --> 00:27:09.816
humanistically, you know?
646
00:27:09.816 --> 00:27:11.498
Did you turn the camera on yourself?
647
00:27:11.498 --> 00:27:13.408
A lot of people turned to self portraiture.
648
00:27:13.408 --> 00:27:14.684
God, no.
649
00:27:14.684 --> 00:27:15.819
(Tara laughing)
650
00:27:15.819 --> 00:27:16.652
Never.
651
00:27:17.769 --> 00:27:20.969
Mark's been shooting up a storm of himself.
652
00:27:20.969 --> 00:27:21.959
Really?
653
00:27:21.959 --> 00:27:22.792
No, not really.
654
00:27:22.792 --> 00:27:24.148
He'll be like, grr, Tara.
655
00:27:24.148 --> 00:27:25.136
(Tara laughing)
656
00:27:25.136 --> 00:27:27.347
Oh, yeah. No, that sounds horrific.
657
00:27:27.347 --> 00:27:29.413
(both laughing)
658
00:27:29.413 --> 00:27:30.953
No, it wasn't that self-reflective.
659
00:27:30.953 --> 00:27:32.155
Yeah. It was interesting.
660
00:27:32.155 --> 00:27:34.192
There was quite a few self-portraits entered
661
00:27:34.192 --> 00:27:37.703
and I'm sure that will be the same for our painting prize
662
00:27:37.703 --> 00:27:41.223
where, you know, I guess as a form of therapy
663
00:27:41.223 --> 00:27:42.758
or self-reflection,
664
00:27:42.758 --> 00:27:46.250
and then a lack of models as well
665
00:27:46.250 --> 00:27:47.285
for projects.
Yeah. Yeah.
666
00:27:47.285 --> 00:27:49.362
I'll turn to landscape.
667
00:27:49.362 --> 00:27:52.180
(both laughing)
668
00:27:52.180 --> 00:27:54.604
Interpretative portraiture, symbolism of Jul.
669
00:27:54.604 --> 00:27:56.301
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
670
00:27:56.301 --> 00:27:57.312
(Tara laughing)
671
00:27:57.312 --> 00:27:58.674
Whatever that means.
672
00:27:58.674 --> 00:28:01.598
So one of the questions we always get asked,
673
00:28:01.598 --> 00:28:03.562
especially with sort of more established,
674
00:28:03.562 --> 00:28:05.626
well-known photographers like yourself,
675
00:28:05.626 --> 00:28:08.737
is your selected equipment.
Oh, God.
676
00:28:08.737 --> 00:28:12.911
What are you faves to shoot we can use?
677
00:28:12.911 --> 00:28:14.576
As in, what do I use day to day?
678
00:28:14.576 --> 00:28:18.659
Yeah, whatever. You can tell us all your stuff.
679
00:28:20.265 --> 00:28:24.182
I'm the opposite, 'cause I'm not a gear head.
680
00:28:27.235 --> 00:28:29.473
Technically, I'm terrible.
681
00:28:29.473 --> 00:28:31.462
So I-
I don't know about that.
682
00:28:31.462 --> 00:28:34.371
But for people who are vaguely interested,
683
00:28:34.371 --> 00:28:35.906
I mean, I do shoot a lot of film,
684
00:28:35.906 --> 00:28:38.901
but my actual working life,
685
00:28:38.901 --> 00:28:41.651
I actually just shoot on Canon 5D
686
00:28:43.229 --> 00:28:44.062
work.
687
00:28:45.407 --> 00:28:48.671
But I've had the same kind of gear for the last,
688
00:28:48.671 --> 00:28:52.671
I don't think I've updated my stuff for the last
689
00:28:53.687 --> 00:28:54.520
10 years.
690
00:28:55.362 --> 00:28:56.951
Five years?
691
00:28:56.951 --> 00:28:58.604
Maybe five to seven years
692
00:28:58.604 --> 00:29:00.939
because it's at such a level now.
693
00:29:00.939 --> 00:29:04.746
There's kind of no need and I'm tired tight ass
694
00:29:04.746 --> 00:29:07.663
and, you know, and gear's expensive
695
00:29:09.131 --> 00:29:13.690
and I'm sort of of the opinion that if it is at a standard,
696
00:29:13.690 --> 00:29:17.639
then it's gotta be good enough, you know?
697
00:29:17.639 --> 00:29:19.493
That it's on me now, it's not the camera.
698
00:29:19.493 --> 00:29:22.419
Yeah. Tradesmen blames their tools, right?
699
00:29:22.419 --> 00:29:23.540
Totally.
700
00:29:23.540 --> 00:29:24.938
(Tara laughing)
701
00:29:24.938 --> 00:29:26.770
But with my, sort of, film work,
702
00:29:26.770 --> 00:29:29.364
I've got a bunch of different cameras that I, sort of, use.
703
00:29:29.364 --> 00:29:30.984
Like I've got my 5x4 that I love,
704
00:29:30.984 --> 00:29:34.151
and I've got my Pentax 6x7 that I love
705
00:29:35.481 --> 00:29:37.418
and, sort of, always turn to
706
00:29:37.418 --> 00:29:39.536
because it's just this, sort of, mechanical way
707
00:29:39.536 --> 00:29:40.786
of working and,
708
00:29:42.905 --> 00:29:45.481
yeah, and I've got a like an old Leica
709
00:29:45.481 --> 00:29:46.854
and I've got an old Pentax,
710
00:29:46.854 --> 00:29:49.186
like a Pentax 35 mil.
711
00:29:49.186 --> 00:29:50.613
And, yeah, I mean,
712
00:29:50.613 --> 00:29:53.740
they're all such great cameras,
713
00:29:53.740 --> 00:29:56.794
I'll have them 'til the day I die
714
00:29:56.794 --> 00:29:59.775
because they've always been so great
715
00:29:59.775 --> 00:30:03.234
and the glass is great and the mechanics are great
716
00:30:03.234 --> 00:30:04.892
and
717
00:30:04.892 --> 00:30:07.714
kind of, up to me, you know?
718
00:30:07.714 --> 00:30:10.139
Yeah. It works.
Yeah. Yeah.
719
00:30:10.139 --> 00:30:12.544
I think we touched a little bit on before,
720
00:30:12.544 --> 00:30:15.002
like the style of photography you prefer
721
00:30:15.002 --> 00:30:16.468
and it sounds like that's evolving
722
00:30:16.468 --> 00:30:19.040
or becoming more crystal clear.
723
00:30:19.040 --> 00:30:22.473
I think so. I don't think it ever changed.
724
00:30:22.473 --> 00:30:27.145
I think that all those people that I loved 30 years ago,
725
00:30:27.145 --> 00:30:29.418
when, you know, you have to, sort of,
726
00:30:29.418 --> 00:30:31.534
not become fashionable with your photography
727
00:30:31.534 --> 00:30:32.700
but you know, there will be styles
728
00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:35.008
and you would have to jump on
729
00:30:35.008 --> 00:30:37.041
and that was kind of terrifying.
730
00:30:37.041 --> 00:30:40.662
But I think at the heart of my, you know,
731
00:30:40.662 --> 00:30:43.390
the love of my photography has never changed,
732
00:30:43.390 --> 00:30:45.133
which is kind of nice, so.
733
00:30:45.133 --> 00:30:47.417
And I am a bit of a, sort of, you know,
734
00:30:47.417 --> 00:30:49.855
a nod to the old classics.
735
00:30:49.855 --> 00:30:51.610
There's no denying that, I mean,
736
00:30:51.610 --> 00:30:54.093
and I'm sure a lot of people are too
737
00:30:54.093 --> 00:30:57.674
but it was nice to, sort of, have that, you know,
738
00:30:57.674 --> 00:30:59.549
response, you know.
739
00:30:59.549 --> 00:31:02.454
It became more apparent in the last few years,
740
00:31:02.454 --> 00:31:03.621
all over again
741
00:31:04.897 --> 00:31:08.167
where, you know, I draw my inspiration from,
742
00:31:08.167 --> 00:31:10.042
you know, the old guys.
743
00:31:10.042 --> 00:31:10.875
So, who is that?
744
00:31:10.875 --> 00:31:13.841
What are the photographers and artists that inspire you
745
00:31:13.841 --> 00:31:15.872
or that you look up to?
746
00:31:15.872 --> 00:31:18.295
It's funny because I've certainly jumped
747
00:31:18.295 --> 00:31:20.008
from painters as well
748
00:31:20.008 --> 00:31:23.092
but I have this real thing with Jeffrey Smart.
749
00:31:23.092 --> 00:31:23.925
Yeah.
750
00:31:23.925 --> 00:31:25.175
I always did.
751
00:31:26.372 --> 00:31:28.872
I also love (faintly speaking) Arnold Newman
752
00:31:28.872 --> 00:31:30.364
and I love Irving Penn
753
00:31:30.364 --> 00:31:34.089
but a lot of people love all that too.
754
00:31:34.089 --> 00:31:37.206
Cartier-Bresson's a cliche, personally,
755
00:31:37.206 --> 00:31:41.255
but I would be lying if I say that I don't flick through.
756
00:31:41.255 --> 00:31:43.222
(both laughing)
757
00:31:43.222 --> 00:31:44.972
But then there's, sort of, unknown people too.
758
00:31:44.972 --> 00:31:46.206
Like, you know, I don't know if you know the story
759
00:31:46.206 --> 00:31:48.797
about Vivian Maier, right?
760
00:31:48.797 --> 00:31:50.747
The photographer who no one knew
761
00:31:50.747 --> 00:31:53.080
and then she was discovered.
762
00:31:55.311 --> 00:31:58.295
A guy found all this lost film in a storage locker.
763
00:31:58.295 --> 00:31:59.842
Oh, yeah. I remember hearing about this
764
00:31:59.842 --> 00:32:01.708
a few years ago.
Yeah.
765
00:32:01.708 --> 00:32:03.291
It's extraordinary.
766
00:32:04.255 --> 00:32:05.797
Yeah and it's just incredible,
767
00:32:05.797 --> 00:32:08.464
like an exceptional photographer
768
00:32:09.363 --> 00:32:13.143
who died.
Was a woman, unfortunately.
769
00:32:13.143 --> 00:32:14.928
Yeah.
That's probably why.
770
00:32:14.928 --> 00:32:18.278
I dunno. I mean, she had a lot of mental health,
771
00:32:18.278 --> 00:32:20.936
but she just shot all of this film and never processed them.
772
00:32:20.936 --> 00:32:22.982
Mm. Amazing.
773
00:32:22.982 --> 00:32:26.098
But yeah and Mary Ellen Mark, when I was younger,
774
00:32:26.098 --> 00:32:29.553
I was totally obsessed with her documentary work
775
00:32:29.553 --> 00:32:34.470
because I just loved how she got so deep into storytelling.
776
00:32:35.736 --> 00:32:36.914
But yeah, I don't fixate on one.
777
00:32:36.914 --> 00:32:40.523
I sort of oscillate between a lot of different ones,
778
00:32:40.523 --> 00:32:45.523
but strangely it just hasn't changed from when I was like 16
779
00:32:46.051 --> 00:32:47.535
and picked up a camera.
780
00:32:47.535 --> 00:32:52.528
All those people that influenced me now were the same,
781
00:32:52.528 --> 00:32:53.646
you know, it's never changed.
782
00:32:53.646 --> 00:32:57.811
I've picked up a (faintly speaking) of all the oldies.
783
00:32:57.811 --> 00:33:00.561
Do you go to galleries much, like,
784
00:33:00.561 --> 00:33:02.284
in general.
Yeah, yeah.
785
00:33:02.284 --> 00:33:03.822
When they're open I do.
786
00:33:03.822 --> 00:33:05.305
Yeah. You know. Come on!
787
00:33:05.305 --> 00:33:06.785
Yeah, no I do.
788
00:33:06.785 --> 00:33:08.946
I kind of love going to,
789
00:33:08.946 --> 00:33:11.454
and not necessarily photography either.
790
00:33:11.454 --> 00:33:14.154
Like, I can get, just as a contemporary painting
791
00:33:14.154 --> 00:33:15.487
or old European,
792
00:33:16.967 --> 00:33:20.714
just, I, (faintly speaking)
793
00:33:20.714 --> 00:33:21.966
Yeah.
You know.
794
00:33:21.966 --> 00:33:23.699
I think that's why I like Jeffrey Smart
795
00:33:23.699 --> 00:33:24.878
because that's sort of-
796
00:33:24.878 --> 00:33:25.711
Yeah.
797
00:33:25.711 --> 00:33:29.052
You know, perfect composition, but yeah.
798
00:33:29.052 --> 00:33:32.235
Yeah. I don't settle on one particular.
799
00:33:32.235 --> 00:33:33.396
Yeah.
800
00:33:33.396 --> 00:33:36.637
So do you have any tips for aspiring photographers?
801
00:33:36.637 --> 00:33:39.208
A lot of people would be looking up to, I think,
802
00:33:39.208 --> 00:33:40.666
when you look at your body of work
803
00:33:40.666 --> 00:33:43.083
and career.
Oh, that's nice.
804
00:33:47.474 --> 00:33:50.724
Not tips. I just think that persistence
805
00:33:51.648 --> 00:33:54.538
has always been the thing.
806
00:33:54.538 --> 00:33:56.305
You know, and not to be that,
807
00:33:56.305 --> 00:33:58.651
I mean, I've got two boys that are in their twenties
808
00:33:58.651 --> 00:34:00.484
and, you know, I think
809
00:34:01.942 --> 00:34:04.015
that social media and I'm showing my age,
810
00:34:04.015 --> 00:34:06.590
and before the internet, you know,
811
00:34:06.590 --> 00:34:08.590
you just have to persist
812
00:34:10.183 --> 00:34:13.987
and work really hard towards something
813
00:34:13.987 --> 00:34:17.637
and I always just say to be really noisy
814
00:34:17.637 --> 00:34:21.852
and, you know, even though the insecurities
815
00:34:21.852 --> 00:34:24.290
get the better of you and as they still do now,
816
00:34:24.290 --> 00:34:27.665
and on, sort of, this side down the track,
817
00:34:27.665 --> 00:34:29.998
you almost have to ignore it
818
00:34:31.291 --> 00:34:32.208
and try and
819
00:34:35.333 --> 00:34:36.591
knock on a lot of doors
820
00:34:36.591 --> 00:34:40.424
and be okay to hear no about a thousand times,
821
00:34:41.403 --> 00:34:43.736
because that doesn't change.
822
00:34:44.573 --> 00:34:47.248
Like, really, it doesn't.
823
00:34:47.248 --> 00:34:50.718
You know, the a hundred nos I got 30 years ago,
824
00:34:50.718 --> 00:34:52.051
I still get today,
825
00:34:52.051 --> 00:34:56.759
but I just get better at, sort of, handling the nos.
826
00:34:56.759 --> 00:35:01.092
But I think persistence is probably key to anything.
827
00:35:02.967 --> 00:35:06.384
You kind of have to just, kind of, keep going and going
828
00:35:06.384 --> 00:35:11.384
and keep trying to find your own personal voice, you know,
829
00:35:11.924 --> 00:35:13.513
in amongst all the noise of social media,
830
00:35:13.513 --> 00:35:16.221
which is tricky, which I would admit,
831
00:35:16.221 --> 00:35:20.523
because I think if social media existed, you know,
832
00:35:20.523 --> 00:35:21.965
when I was starting out,
833
00:35:21.965 --> 00:35:24.665
I dunno how confident I would be
834
00:35:24.665 --> 00:35:27.689
about trying to (indistinct) what I'm saying now.
835
00:35:27.689 --> 00:35:29.451
Like, it's hard.
Yeah.
836
00:35:29.451 --> 00:35:33.601
It's hard for people to not get, you know,
837
00:35:33.601 --> 00:35:35.811
dissuaded by seeing what they see
838
00:35:35.811 --> 00:35:38.012
and they go, "I'm no good."
839
00:35:38.012 --> 00:35:39.720
There's so much good stuff out there.
840
00:35:39.720 --> 00:35:44.427
It's a saturated market with stuff so possibly find my way,
841
00:35:44.427 --> 00:35:48.080
but I don't think anythings really changed.
842
00:35:48.080 --> 00:35:49.497
You just have to,
843
00:35:51.714 --> 00:35:52.547
blinkers.
844
00:35:53.547 --> 00:35:54.830
Keep going.
845
00:35:54.830 --> 00:35:56.446
Keep going.
846
00:35:56.446 --> 00:35:57.904
What about dream subject?
847
00:35:57.904 --> 00:36:01.426
If you could get anyone in front of your camera.
848
00:36:01.426 --> 00:36:03.717
Yeah, I kinda did and it was done
849
00:36:03.717 --> 00:36:07.862
and it was that photographer that I mentioned earlier
850
00:36:07.862 --> 00:36:11.871
and not many people know who he is, which is fine because,
851
00:36:11.871 --> 00:36:14.379
it's Arnold Newman, the photographer
852
00:36:14.379 --> 00:36:18.337
who I was referring to earlier was the guy that,
853
00:36:18.337 --> 00:36:22.587
when I was 16, I picked up his, a book of portraits
854
00:36:24.177 --> 00:36:27.594
and that was that sort of defining moment
855
00:36:28.693 --> 00:36:30.686
where I decided I wasn't going to be an illustrator,
856
00:36:30.686 --> 00:36:31.519
I was gonna be a photographer
857
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:34.477
because I saw how I could be creative,
858
00:36:34.477 --> 00:36:36.293
but a whole lot quicker.
859
00:36:36.293 --> 00:36:39.376
And his work had such an effect on me
860
00:36:40.907 --> 00:36:42.432
and then years, and years, and years, and years later,
861
00:36:42.432 --> 00:36:45.432
I got a chance to go to New York and photograph him.
862
00:36:45.432 --> 00:36:49.765
And thankfully it wasn't a disappointment, you know,
863
00:36:50.741 --> 00:36:52.525
like, as they say, don't.
864
00:36:52.525 --> 00:36:55.192
Yeah, so I got to photograph him
865
00:36:56.758 --> 00:36:59.870
and it's not, you know, it's not a big name.
866
00:36:59.870 --> 00:37:02.911
It's not a Barack Obama or a,
867
00:37:02.911 --> 00:37:04.911
but for me it was great.
868
00:37:06.377 --> 00:37:10.217
It was a nice thing to have someone inspire me
869
00:37:10.217 --> 00:37:13.617
and then have him in front of me when I'm, you know,
870
00:37:13.617 --> 00:37:15.705
I was in my forties.
Yeah.
871
00:37:15.705 --> 00:37:19.882
Yeah. And yeah, it was really lovely to meet someone
872
00:37:19.882 --> 00:37:23.225
who had such an effect on my work and still does.
873
00:37:23.225 --> 00:37:27.033
Yeah. That's circling back to your roots again.
874
00:37:27.033 --> 00:37:29.524
Yeah. Yeah, but terrifying.
875
00:37:29.524 --> 00:37:32.191
(both laughing)
876
00:37:33.190 --> 00:37:34.257
Looking at your website,
877
00:37:34.257 --> 00:37:36.465
you got some awesome travel photos.
878
00:37:36.465 --> 00:37:39.286
I was like, oh man, I miss travel.
879
00:37:39.286 --> 00:37:40.494
Never travel?
880
00:37:40.494 --> 00:37:43.744
Yeah. So many beautiful-
Yeah.
881
00:37:43.744 --> 00:37:47.569
And all divided into countries. I was like, this is rad.
882
00:37:47.569 --> 00:37:49.596
Yeah. yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is.
883
00:37:49.596 --> 00:37:53.695
I mean, it's like, it's one of those things where
884
00:37:53.695 --> 00:37:56.938
I'm so grateful for that work
885
00:37:56.938 --> 00:38:00.774
because what a way to and how lucky am I to,
886
00:38:00.774 --> 00:38:01.607
you know-
Yeah.
887
00:38:01.607 --> 00:38:03.711
To be told, just take your camera
888
00:38:03.711 --> 00:38:06.151
and go to these places and-
889
00:38:06.151 --> 00:38:08.371
So amazing.
Yeah.
890
00:38:08.371 --> 00:38:09.971
Yeah. So
891
00:38:09.971 --> 00:38:11.037
it'll happen.
892
00:38:11.037 --> 00:38:12.939
Again.
Again, yeah.
893
00:38:12.939 --> 00:38:15.594
I saw you'd spent some time in Chiang Mai.
894
00:38:15.594 --> 00:38:16.757
I liked all your Chiang Mai photos.
895
00:38:16.757 --> 00:38:18.854
Oh, I loved it. Have you been?
896
00:38:18.854 --> 00:38:21.232
Yeah. I do like, Muay Thai
897
00:38:21.232 --> 00:38:24.248
so I spent a lot of time in Sankampang,
898
00:38:24.248 --> 00:38:25.875
just outside of Chiang Mai, so-
899
00:38:25.875 --> 00:38:27.625
Oh, amazing!
I love Chiang Mai.
900
00:38:27.625 --> 00:38:31.489
I was getting all like, sad looking at your photos.
901
00:38:31.489 --> 00:38:32.430
(both laughing)
902
00:38:32.430 --> 00:38:33.286
I was like, oh-
903
00:38:33.286 --> 00:38:35.913
It's funny, actually, you should say that because I,
904
00:38:35.913 --> 00:38:37.621
I mean, of course I have a lot of places
905
00:38:37.621 --> 00:38:40.329
that stick in my memory more than others,
906
00:38:40.329 --> 00:38:43.619
but that place for whatever reason,
907
00:38:43.619 --> 00:38:45.119
I love that place.
908
00:38:46.028 --> 00:38:49.194
Yeah. Me too. I've got a real affinity with Chiang Mai
909
00:38:49.194 --> 00:38:51.810
and I was just like, oh, you really captured it well,
910
00:38:51.810 --> 00:38:53.058
like that spirituality
911
00:38:53.058 --> 00:38:55.453
and like a lot of people see the,
912
00:38:55.453 --> 00:38:58.736
you know, the commercialism of it,
913
00:38:58.736 --> 00:38:59.569
but you sort of-
914
00:38:59.569 --> 00:39:02.473
Yeah. But just such kind humans, you know that kind of-
915
00:39:02.473 --> 00:39:03.773
Oh, yeah.
916
00:39:03.773 --> 00:39:05.918
Amazing, amazing people.
917
00:39:05.918 --> 00:39:07.793
Yeah.
Yeah.
918
00:39:07.793 --> 00:39:09.051
Hmm.
919
00:39:09.051 --> 00:39:09.884
Very nice.
920
00:39:09.884 --> 00:39:14.551
What about any shout outs or thank yous to people?
921
00:39:14.551 --> 00:39:15.384
Oh, wow.
922
00:39:15.384 --> 00:39:17.758
(Julian mumbling)
923
00:39:17.758 --> 00:39:19.776
Going straight for the jugular.
924
00:39:19.776 --> 00:39:20.763
Yeah, yeah.
925
00:39:20.763 --> 00:39:23.430
(Tara laughing)
926
00:39:24.896 --> 00:39:26.931
I'll be a hundred percent honest
927
00:39:26.931 --> 00:39:27.764
and it's going to sound like I'm, sort of,
928
00:39:27.764 --> 00:39:30.188
blowing wind up your skirt,
929
00:39:30.188 --> 00:39:35.188
but I particularly am very grateful to the Portrait Gallery
930
00:39:35.218 --> 00:39:36.051
in general
931
00:39:37.003 --> 00:39:37.836
because,
932
00:39:38.994 --> 00:39:42.369
and it really does sound like I'm greasing the pole here,
933
00:39:42.369 --> 00:39:43.202
but it's not.
934
00:39:43.202 --> 00:39:44.102
(Tara laughing)
935
00:39:44.102 --> 00:39:44.935
I thought I-
936
00:39:44.935 --> 00:39:46.518
We've already got 11 of your works
937
00:39:46.518 --> 00:39:48.634
in the collection.
Just being put on the spot.
938
00:39:48.634 --> 00:39:50.884
Because I just, I find that
939
00:39:52.166 --> 00:39:54.083
it's hard to find that,
940
00:39:55.282 --> 00:39:57.415
sort of, that, such support, you know?
941
00:39:57.415 --> 00:40:00.415
Like where it's that ongoing support
942
00:40:02.123 --> 00:40:06.331
and it's always this sort of positive reinforcement
943
00:40:06.331 --> 00:40:07.164
with work.
944
00:40:07.164 --> 00:40:09.240
Now, whether it's, whether I'm in the prize
945
00:40:09.240 --> 00:40:11.698
or not in the prize or whether I'm, sort of,
946
00:40:11.698 --> 00:40:13.861
watching it from afar,
947
00:40:13.861 --> 00:40:15.478
it is nice to see that
948
00:40:15.478 --> 00:40:17.046
because we are a very young country
949
00:40:17.046 --> 00:40:21.279
and we don't have a big, sort of, photography contingency,
950
00:40:21.279 --> 00:40:22.112
really,
951
00:40:22.112 --> 00:40:23.621
compared to the rest of the world.
952
00:40:23.621 --> 00:40:26.868
So it is kind of nice to watch that and to have that.
953
00:40:26.868 --> 00:40:31.868
And I do feel very fortunate to have the works in there.
954
00:40:31.942 --> 00:40:35.451
So yeah, there's a massive shout out just in general
955
00:40:35.451 --> 00:40:36.284
because,
956
00:40:37.652 --> 00:40:41.524
yeah, when you have that kind of insecurity in your work
957
00:40:41.524 --> 00:40:44.940
and you're worried about what it all kind of means,
958
00:40:44.940 --> 00:40:48.028
to have someone say it's worthwhile
959
00:40:48.028 --> 00:40:50.528
is kind of a nice place to be.
960
00:40:52.005 --> 00:40:55.099
So yeah, that's a, kind of a bit of shout out past
961
00:40:55.099 --> 00:40:56.376
and present.
962
00:40:56.376 --> 00:40:57.420
That's awesome. Thanks.
963
00:40:57.420 --> 00:40:59.895
'Cause we are trying and it's good you see that
964
00:40:59.895 --> 00:41:04.126
'cause we are trying to build that photographic community
965
00:41:04.126 --> 00:41:05.848
and, you know-
Yeah, yeah.
966
00:41:05.848 --> 00:41:10.704
And like I said, it's so obvious when I've watched,
967
00:41:10.704 --> 00:41:15.210
like I said, even if I'm not in as a finalist,
968
00:41:15.210 --> 00:41:18.580
there's no person above or below.
969
00:41:18.580 --> 00:41:20.330
You'd be on an equal.
970
00:41:21.412 --> 00:41:25.370
You know 30 years or 40 years in the business
971
00:41:25.370 --> 00:41:28.947
or someone who's just picked up the camera
972
00:41:28.947 --> 00:41:30.780
and to see them get short listed
973
00:41:30.780 --> 00:41:32.925
and that sort of excitement level
974
00:41:32.925 --> 00:41:36.059
and then the encouragement from you guys that they get
975
00:41:36.059 --> 00:41:38.621
is kind of, felt pretty insane
976
00:41:38.621 --> 00:41:41.224
and you know, and rare.
977
00:41:41.224 --> 00:41:44.307
So it's nice. Yeah. It's nice to watch.
978
00:41:44.307 --> 00:41:46.232
That's awesome.
Yeah.
979
00:41:46.232 --> 00:41:50.012
What about Jules' parting words of wisdom?
980
00:41:50.012 --> 00:41:50.845
Oh, God.
981
00:41:50.845 --> 00:41:53.733
(Tara laughing)
982
00:41:53.733 --> 00:41:56.064
Come on. You're wise.
983
00:41:56.064 --> 00:41:58.911
Give us the goods. You're wise.
984
00:41:58.911 --> 00:41:59.744
I dunno.
985
00:42:01.494 --> 00:42:03.442
Just try and ignore the noise,
986
00:42:03.442 --> 00:42:06.275
the white noise that is, you know,
987
00:42:07.125 --> 00:42:10.305
we get so separated by, you know,
988
00:42:10.305 --> 00:42:12.721
news, social media,
989
00:42:12.721 --> 00:42:15.304
and it's hard to not, you know,
990
00:42:17.024 --> 00:42:19.607
sort of buoy yourself up above.
991
00:42:21.030 --> 00:42:22.865
We're always thinking of what other people are doing
992
00:42:22.865 --> 00:42:24.865
and we don't have enough
993
00:42:26.748 --> 00:42:30.265
confidence in our own work to sort of push it along.
994
00:42:30.265 --> 00:42:33.044
But if it has to be words of wisdom,
995
00:42:33.044 --> 00:42:35.127
I think you just have to,
996
00:42:37.229 --> 00:42:39.115
I dunno, I'm not, sort of, articulating very well,
997
00:42:39.115 --> 00:42:41.782
but I think that you just have to try
998
00:42:41.782 --> 00:42:44.532
and trust your own voice visually
999
00:42:46.668 --> 00:42:49.803
and try not to try not to be dissuaded
1000
00:42:49.803 --> 00:42:52.886
by all the trappings of social media,
1001
00:42:53.737 --> 00:42:55.799
'cause it is a problem.
Yeah.
1002
00:42:55.799 --> 00:42:58.151
In equal measure, it's great.
1003
00:42:58.151 --> 00:42:59.677
Yeah, blessing-
But also,
1004
00:42:59.677 --> 00:43:01.635
completely unnerving
1005
00:43:01.635 --> 00:43:02.820
and you know-
Yeah.
1006
00:43:02.820 --> 00:43:06.987
Trying to hold your nerve in this industries is,
1007
00:43:07.843 --> 00:43:09.107
doesn't go away
1008
00:43:09.107 --> 00:43:11.147
and it's probably kind of nice for people to know
1009
00:43:11.147 --> 00:43:12.363
that you don't get to a point
1010
00:43:12.363 --> 00:43:14.430
where you're not unnerved
1011
00:43:14.430 --> 00:43:17.506
'cause it's constant unnerving, you know.
1012
00:43:17.506 --> 00:43:20.589
Constantly unnerving and that's cool.