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Could you tell us a little bit about yourself
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and your photography practise?
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Yeah, so my photography started,
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I went to art school after finishing school, I went to COFA.
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And I just found myself being more and more drawn
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to the photography subjects,
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and spending a lot of time in the dark room.
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And I went to art school
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thinking I'd be an artist and sort of work,
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and then I got to the realisation that, oh gosh,
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what really am I gonna do to make a living?
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And then I was enjoying photography so much.
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I thought, oh, photo journalism, that's a thing,
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maybe I could do that.
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And I was lucky enough that when I contacted the papers
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back then they just said,
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"All right, yeah, start, do a shift tomorrow."
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And that was the beginning
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of my photography-working career really.
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And I've been lucky enough to...
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Yeah, remained gainfully employed by some main, real fluke
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and work for Fairfax for a long, long time, now nine.
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I moved to Hong Kong with the family
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and started freelancing there.
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And I had sort of close working relationship with Getty,
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and tapped into the arts community in Hong Kong
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and then moved back to Sydney, and continued to freelance.
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I spent nine months
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working as the picture editor for The Guardian.
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I took a mat leave role where,
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which was fabulous and sort of still have a relationship
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with The Guardian and work for them from time to time.
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Yeah, so pretty amazing career path.
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Yeah, and I've been really lucky in that, and Fairfax,
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I sort of moved around a bit.
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So I started as a freelancer
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and then got a role as a photographer at the Fin review,
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and then I took a role as a photographer with the SMH,
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a staff photographer with the SMH.
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I got to picture a little bit for the SMH, which is fun,
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including things like I was picture editing
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because the picture editor was away at the time
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during the referendum for independence in East Timor
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and Jason South, a photographer was on the ground
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for Fairfax.
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Yeah, it was pretty amazing.
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And then I went to work as a photographer
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for the Financial Review magazine.
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And then I was also the picture editor
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for the Fairfax business publications
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which is the centre of the American Financial Review
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newspaper.
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And then back then there was a whole raft
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of business publications.
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So we had a department about 20 sort of photographers
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working on the country.
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Yeah.
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Incredible.
Yeah.
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But you look at your portfolio
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and you've shot photos of almost everyone.
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There's so many well-named faces in there,
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that's pretty amazing.
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Yeah.
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Look at some...
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It is a career which takes you to some interesting places
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in corners and yeah.
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Now I've been very fortunate to sort of, yeah.
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Any standouts of people you've had behind your lens,
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like one, no, that like, oh, this is my hero,
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or like...
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It's funny actually people ask me about, you know,
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what's the best sort of photo assignment
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or the most person or what have you,
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and look, there's lots of great,
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but I would have to say that photographing
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and having the opportunity
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to photograph first nations people
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is probably really been the highlight
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because there's just so much to learn.
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And there's this whole other culture which is right here,
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which is so vastly different from, I guess, you know,
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the culture that we sort of, well, more familiar with.
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And so, for me that is a very rewarding experience.
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Really special.
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Yeah.
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An important one to tell as well and document for everyone.
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Yeah.
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What about,
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could you tell us a bit about your finalist work,
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Mark and Saskia call-off.
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Oh yeah.
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Yeah.
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So I had actually been working for the SMH that day
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and I had a bit of time sort of left at the end of,
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I guess my shift, and I have an underwater camera housing
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and I thought, gosh, I'm going to dive into the sea
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and just see what I can come up with.
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And Sydney was in a lockdown situation,
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and they'd had a period where people weren't allowed
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to really even utilise or swim at the beach,
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and then it sort of loosened a bit
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and you could sort of quickly duck down and swim
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but you were not to loiter on the sand or anything.
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But if you people had been swimming their dogs
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off the boat ramp there.
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And so I sort of, yeah,
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I dived in there and started photographing
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and it sort of was a funny thing
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cause there's been a lot of underwater photography,
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you know, some really great stuff,
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but yeah, it's become very popular because it's so much fun.
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And, but I sort of had this thing which is like,
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oh, dogs and dogs swimming.
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No one's really been doing this little niche bit of Sydney.
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It was a funny little moment
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which I think photographers have from time to time
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where they feel like, oh, I feel like I'm sort of, you know,
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a smaller little niche thing as it is felt
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that I had sort of, was sort of doing something
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that was just a bit different at the time.
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And yeah, Mark and Saskia really caught my eye
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and just sort of were photogenic and now we're, you know,
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lovely enough to sort of say, yeah, fine,
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you know, let's do some pictures.
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And so we, you know, swimming around
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doing some shots and yeah.
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I guess it's just hopefully,
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just a really joyous sort of moment.
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And that whole sort of thing
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I think through this lockdown and pandemic,
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there's been a lot of grief for a lot of people.
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But there's also been the elements
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of people being sort of reminded
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of the beautiful parts of life
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and sort of stripping things back to basics,
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children being able to ride their bicycles
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down the middle of roads that were normally, you know,
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thoroughfares with traffic
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and people turning to their dogs for the way that, you know,
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that I haven't for a long time.
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I too purchase the four legged, fluffy COVID baby.
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So yeah, so that was sort of, it really,
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it's a funny,
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well actually there's a funny story to this
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because when you're in the water with an underwater housing,
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you do not have pen and paper
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and I'm not organised enough to have a sort of a smartwatch
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where you could listen, you know,
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record or type someone's name in.
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And so I had sort of, oh, what's her name?
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Mark.
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What's the dog's name Saskia.
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Yeah, great.
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And it wasn't till I got out of the water
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and was looking at the pictures and I'm like,
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oh, I think that one's good.
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Oh, I'm great.
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It's sharp.
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Yeah.
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There is a thing with underwater photography
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where, you know, I mean I'm often just trying not to drown,
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So, wow.
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You know, and perhaps a little bit more of that
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almost darkroom experience of like, oh, oh look,
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there's a lot of, particularly in the surf
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where you've got sort of waves and so forth,
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there's that I guess, you know,
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accidental sort of stuff that goes on which is sort of fun.
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And so yeah, so I'm like,
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oh, this is a really good shot.
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And then it was like, oh, you know,
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I presented them to the SMH and they were like,
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yeah, great, but we'd like to speak to this man,
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what's his surname?
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So I ended up doing the weirdest thing
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and I went and put a little,
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like a poster queue down by the fibre
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by the boat ramp there thinking, look,
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I'm sure he's a local and he probably comes here, you know,
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cause his dog enjoyed this.
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So hopefully he'll see this and he'll respond.
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And he did.
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But the funny thing was that he called Nick Moir,
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my colleague at the SMH, probably because, you know,
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he's a very, well-known,
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he is the chief photographer at the Herald
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and perhaps he just sort of felt,
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she said she was working for the Herald.
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I'm gonna (indistinct).
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So Nick called me and said, oh, this guy got in.
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And I got his poster you put down and I'm like, anyway.
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So we got in contact like that and yeah.
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Cool.
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Awesome.
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Yeah.
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It's really nice in the exhibition
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and you touched on it as well, like it's a joyous moment
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and you're when you come and see the show
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and you've probably seen it.
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It really is a moment of relief.
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You know, it's some darker themes in there
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that when you look at and it just makes you smile as well.
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Like it's so texturally rich that you're first,
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you look at it and you just smile and feel that joy
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and that the beach,
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but then you start looking at those textures of the water
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and the dog's fair and it's just like incredible.
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Oh, thank you.
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Thanks.
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Yeah.
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Funny when I think I just finished art school
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and I volunteered to do some work at the art gallery
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of new South Wales.
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And I was really lucky that while I was volunteering
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to sort of help out in the photographic department there,
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Elliot Erwitt was having a show called,
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I think it's to the dogs.
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Cause he's a Magnum photographer
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who's famous for his documentary on dogs.
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And also his images of a lot of sort of humour in them,
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and they're upbeat and
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I think he was one of the first sort of
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Magnum photographers.
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He wasn't sort of just, sort of doing war and distress
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and everything.
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And he actually I think copped initially
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quite a bit of flack for sort of, you know,
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not you're not a serious photographer
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because we're not sort of dealing with those subjects.
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But anyway, when he was in Sydney
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and having his show hung there,
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he wanted to do some photography around Sydney,
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and he wanted someone to assist him.
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And so I was like, oh yes.
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So I was very lucky to spend a couple of days
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working with the master.
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That's awesome.
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Yeah.
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And it's a funny thing too.
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And maybe it's that thing that when you drive, I dunno,
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a yellow V dub, you start seeing yellow V dubs.
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Everywhere we went we were sort of like
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dogs doing some really weird incredible things.
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Where the God at?
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It's like three old men sitting at a table
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and there's the old dog who's sort of like, you know,
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in tuned to the conversation, what sort of thing?
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That's amazing.
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And you've got a distinction award as well for your work.
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I was pretty blown away by that.
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Yeah.
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And particularly I keep seeing the Instagram feed
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of images coming through
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and just thinking, that's amazing.
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Where this such a beautiful sort of depth of images there.
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There's one, two from the bush fires
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when I was picture editing at The Guardian,
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we certainly ran that image of the young girl on the boat.
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Yes.
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The Alison Maryanne line.
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Yeah, such a powerful image,
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for me that was a real standout
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of all the incredible strong images coming, you know,
264
00:13:55.154 --> 00:13:58.821
harrowing images coming from the bush fires.
265
00:14:00.400 --> 00:14:04.791
But, I mean, I almost tear up when I think back,
266
00:14:04.791 --> 00:14:07.208
I covered the bush fires too,
267
00:14:08.451 --> 00:14:10.784
and it's just, was so awful.
268
00:14:12.611 --> 00:14:13.602
We did...
269
00:14:13.602 --> 00:14:16.335
I'm not sure if he saw our sort of a panel
270
00:14:16.335 --> 00:14:18.513
that we had at the start of the show
271
00:14:18.513 --> 00:14:20.791
and we had sort of Mike Bauers and Christine...
272
00:14:20.791 --> 00:14:21.682
Yeah.
273
00:14:21.682 --> 00:14:23.566
Yeah, I listened into that.
274
00:14:23.566 --> 00:14:26.264
Mike is obviously a photographer for the guidance.
275
00:14:26.264 --> 00:14:27.130
Yeah.
276
00:14:27.130 --> 00:14:30.134
So I know I've worked alongside Mike for a very long time.
277
00:14:30.134 --> 00:14:32.390
So when I was picture editor at the Fin review,
278
00:14:32.390 --> 00:14:35.518
he was picture editor at the SMH numb.
279
00:14:35.518 --> 00:14:39.032
So we have a very long working history back in and I...
280
00:14:39.032 --> 00:14:40.911
And actually I was picture editing
281
00:14:40.911 --> 00:14:42.874
when he took that incredible photo
282
00:14:42.874 --> 00:14:46.124
where he was on the highway down South,
283
00:14:48.818 --> 00:14:52.948
and this is when the fire literally jumped the highway
284
00:14:52.948 --> 00:14:56.198
and there's a shop with the police car,
285
00:14:57.061 --> 00:15:01.750
and then these huge sort of flames throwing up behind him.
286
00:15:01.750 --> 00:15:04.566
And he does tell a very sort of funny story
287
00:15:04.566 --> 00:15:07.577
and that everyone just jumped in their cars
288
00:15:07.577 --> 00:15:10.610
and had to get the hell out of there as possible.
289
00:15:10.610 --> 00:15:11.570
And he said,
290
00:15:11.570 --> 00:15:14.594
"He was (indistinct speaking) the police officer.
291
00:15:14.594 --> 00:15:15.519
That's right.
292
00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:17.905
(indistinct speaking)
293
00:15:17.905 --> 00:15:19.910
This is a surreal,
294
00:15:19.910 --> 00:15:23.483
I'm breaking the speed limit and I'm chasing them.
295
00:15:23.483 --> 00:15:25.131
Yeah.
296
00:15:25.131 --> 00:15:27.442
But the bit that really,
297
00:15:27.442 --> 00:15:29.542
I think I really check up about
298
00:15:29.542 --> 00:15:30.375
is for me when I was covering the fires,
299
00:15:36.086 --> 00:15:36.919
this sense of are we witnessing a tipping point?
300
00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.313
Is this a tipping point?
301
00:15:45.313 --> 00:15:49.480
You know, and hearing of parts of Kangaroo Island
302
00:15:51.546 --> 00:15:53.108
that were totally burnt out.
303
00:15:53.108 --> 00:15:57.503
And yet that is the only habitat where that species lives.
304
00:15:57.503 --> 00:15:59.420
It's just really scary.
305
00:16:00.995 --> 00:16:05.126
And, you know, there is a lot of work being done
306
00:16:05.126 --> 00:16:08.197
on what the effects of the fires have been,
307
00:16:08.197 --> 00:16:09.267
but it's really heartbreaking and hopefully
308
00:16:15.570 --> 00:16:18.284
we don't see the likes of that again.
309
00:16:18.284 --> 00:16:19.123
Yeah.
310
00:16:19.123 --> 00:16:21.040
And it's still ongoing.
311
00:16:22.853 --> 00:16:25.886
The rebuild on the human side,
312
00:16:25.886 --> 00:16:29.513
but nature even is, you know, crazy.
313
00:16:29.513 --> 00:16:32.177
It's still only just the beginnings
314
00:16:32.177 --> 00:16:35.223
of, in a lot of those areas.
315
00:16:35.223 --> 00:16:37.793
Oh and look, I guess with some of them,
316
00:16:37.793 --> 00:16:39.065
they will never be the same.
317
00:16:39.065 --> 00:16:42.157
They won't be a change landscape forever.
318
00:16:42.157 --> 00:16:42.990
Yeah.
319
00:16:44.395 --> 00:16:48.130
One of the works in the show is of the lady's dad.
320
00:16:48.130 --> 00:16:52.081
And that's, I think he's named Al Carter as well,
321
00:16:52.081 --> 00:16:55.081
where he's a biologist in the whole,
322
00:16:55.999 --> 00:16:57.478
his whole property got burnt out.
323
00:16:57.478 --> 00:16:58.962
He'd just had it as far as,
324
00:16:58.962 --> 00:17:03.180
but his way of rebuilding and it's a beautiful little SAR,
325
00:17:03.180 --> 00:17:06.218
I'll send it to you, he just sort of sat
326
00:17:06.218 --> 00:17:09.790
and he started to count the birds coming back one by one.
327
00:17:09.790 --> 00:17:11.442
So he got out his little notebook
328
00:17:11.442 --> 00:17:13.533
and there's this beautiful handwritten list
329
00:17:13.533 --> 00:17:14.632
as he starts to list the birds.
330
00:17:14.632 --> 00:17:16.153
Beautiful.
331
00:17:16.153 --> 00:17:17.740
I'll send you, it's a really,
332
00:17:17.740 --> 00:17:19.934
his daughter wrote an article about it.
333
00:17:19.934 --> 00:17:22.247
He's the subject in one of the photos.
334
00:17:22.247 --> 00:17:23.519
So I sort of dug a bit deeper,
335
00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:27.470
but it gave me a little like tiny glimmer of hope
336
00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:30.260
that, you know, nature is repairing itself.
337
00:17:30.260 --> 00:17:32.979
It may never be the same, but.
338
00:17:32.979 --> 00:17:34.908
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
339
00:17:34.908 --> 00:17:36.040
Yeah.
340
00:17:36.040 --> 00:17:37.647
Oh yeah.
341
00:17:37.647 --> 00:17:38.480
Yeah.
342
00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:41.965
It's pretty hard time for a lot of the photographers
343
00:17:41.965 --> 00:17:43.782
that cover that as well.
344
00:17:43.782 --> 00:17:46.470
That emotional toll on everyone.
345
00:17:46.470 --> 00:17:47.502
Oh yeah.
346
00:17:47.502 --> 00:17:51.847
And, but I guess you know as Mike pointed out,
347
00:17:51.847 --> 00:17:54.680
as a photographer, well, you know,
348
00:17:55.620 --> 00:17:58.199
I mean my house wasn't burned down,
349
00:17:58.199 --> 00:18:01.199
I sort of really didn't live through
350
00:18:03.286 --> 00:18:06.360
and we sort of get to, you know, I got to drive.
351
00:18:06.360 --> 00:18:07.610
You got time.
352
00:18:10.126 --> 00:18:13.258
(indistinct), Sydney.
353
00:18:13.258 --> 00:18:14.091
But yeah.
354
00:18:14.091 --> 00:18:15.738
Look, the thing is it's that the cities,
355
00:18:15.738 --> 00:18:18.114
the climate change is the big, you know,
356
00:18:18.114 --> 00:18:22.479
it's the elephant in the room and it will affect all of us
357
00:18:22.479 --> 00:18:24.177
in some way or other.
358
00:18:24.177 --> 00:18:25.189
Already it's.
359
00:18:25.189 --> 00:18:28.772
I don't know of anyone that's not affected.
360
00:18:30.910 --> 00:18:31.775
What do you think?
361
00:18:31.775 --> 00:18:33.546
Like you're already such an accomplished photographer.
362
00:18:33.546 --> 00:18:37.608
What does being part of the prize mean for you?
363
00:18:37.608 --> 00:18:40.000
Oh, it's a huge kudos.
364
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:41.909
I was really, yeah.
365
00:18:41.909 --> 00:18:43.339
You know, I'm chuffed,
366
00:18:43.339 --> 00:18:46.589
I'm so chuffed to be, to be part of it.
367
00:18:47.828 --> 00:18:48.661
Yeah.
368
00:18:50.274 --> 00:18:52.941
It's the lovely acknowledgement.
369
00:18:54.657 --> 00:18:55.490
I think the thing with judging works like a body of work,
370
00:19:00.721 --> 00:19:02.188
like this is, you know,
371
00:19:02.188 --> 00:19:06.891
how do you say that one image is better than another
372
00:19:06.891 --> 00:19:09.715
when they've totally different subject matter?
373
00:19:09.715 --> 00:19:14.715
Of course it's all very subjective, but it's very, yeah.
374
00:19:14.840 --> 00:19:15.857
It's really humbling
375
00:19:15.857 --> 00:19:19.660
and I feel very honoured to be included definitely.
376
00:19:19.660 --> 00:19:20.750
Particularly, you know,
377
00:19:20.750 --> 00:19:24.151
it's just so many fabulous works in there, so yeah.
378
00:19:24.151 --> 00:19:25.755
Really chuffed.
379
00:19:25.755 --> 00:19:26.588
Yeah.
380
00:19:26.588 --> 00:19:29.090
And a special year sort of a themed year as well.
381
00:19:29.090 --> 00:19:31.037
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
382
00:19:31.037 --> 00:19:32.687
Yeah, definitely.
383
00:19:32.687 --> 00:19:34.315
And we've already got one of your works
384
00:19:34.315 --> 00:19:36.232
in our collection here.
385
00:19:37.069 --> 00:19:41.538
A 1998 portrait of Dame Hammond Mitchell I saw.
386
00:19:41.538 --> 00:19:42.410
Yeah.
387
00:19:42.410 --> 00:19:43.450
Yeah.
388
00:19:43.450 --> 00:19:45.606
That goes quite a way back.
389
00:19:45.606 --> 00:19:50.273
I did a series of portraits of elders for Hammond group,
390
00:19:52.888 --> 00:19:56.971
and I guess it was just sort of looking at, yeah.
391
00:19:58.332 --> 00:20:01.481
Framing elders in a different sort of way,
392
00:20:01.481 --> 00:20:04.031
but obvious issues of a trailblazer
393
00:20:04.031 --> 00:20:06.114
and pretty amazing woman.
394
00:20:08.416 --> 00:20:11.666
I'm always really chuffed and thrilled,
395
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:19.367
particularly, you know, working a lot in business,
396
00:20:21.001 --> 00:20:24.577
sort of like a business and political elite to photograph
397
00:20:24.577 --> 00:20:28.755
women who have, you know, have got to where they are,
398
00:20:28.755 --> 00:20:31.985
because there are huge amount of barriers still
399
00:20:31.985 --> 00:20:33.226
in so many fields.
400
00:20:33.226 --> 00:20:34.059
So yeah.
401
00:20:34.059 --> 00:20:36.821
Even yours included, you know?
402
00:20:36.821 --> 00:20:37.654
Yeah.
403
00:20:37.654 --> 00:20:38.487
Yeah.
404
00:20:38.487 --> 00:20:42.408
I have such an amazing career and photo journalism.
405
00:20:42.408 --> 00:20:45.701
So that's always, does always feel really nice
406
00:20:45.701 --> 00:20:49.262
to sort of help, to feel like you're highlighting that
407
00:20:49.262 --> 00:20:51.543
and presenting them in the best light.
408
00:20:51.543 --> 00:20:55.991
So you have, I mean, you said you've got to travel a bit,
409
00:20:55.991 --> 00:20:58.635
but how have locked downs and sort of changes in the world
410
00:20:58.635 --> 00:21:01.061
affected your practise do you think?
411
00:21:01.061 --> 00:21:04.893
I guess professionally and personally with your photography?
412
00:21:04.893 --> 00:21:05.726
Yeah.
413
00:21:06.676 --> 00:21:09.259
Well, I started at The Guardian
414
00:21:10.233 --> 00:21:11.990
before basically the pandemic,
415
00:21:11.990 --> 00:21:15.048
I've took this sort of mat mat leave role.
416
00:21:15.048 --> 00:21:18.048
And literally I guess had to sort of
417
00:21:19.346 --> 00:21:22.528
say to all my freelance clients,
418
00:21:22.528 --> 00:21:24.066
hey, you're all fabulous,
419
00:21:24.066 --> 00:21:26.157
but I'm going off to full-time job now.
420
00:21:26.157 --> 00:21:30.025
So, you know, hopefully I'll see you on the other side
421
00:21:30.025 --> 00:21:31.192
sort of thing.
422
00:21:32.340 --> 00:21:36.610
And while it was at the guardian, it was quite incredible.
423
00:21:36.610 --> 00:21:41.027
I was sitting on my desk was on the international pod
424
00:21:43.098 --> 00:21:47.181
and basically they started a blog on the pandemic
425
00:21:49.478 --> 00:21:53.061
when it broke in Wu Han and I was together,
426
00:21:54.568 --> 00:21:58.651
photo galleries of you know, the deserted streets
427
00:22:03.309 --> 00:22:07.226
and it was quite incredible to sort of I guess,
428
00:22:08.446 --> 00:22:09.862
big picture editing.
429
00:22:09.862 --> 00:22:11.867
And it was sort of funny because there was one woman
430
00:22:11.867 --> 00:22:13.358
on the international desk,
431
00:22:13.358 --> 00:22:15.201
was like, oh my gosh, this is bigger than Ben Hur.
432
00:22:15.201 --> 00:22:16.876
And everyone I think was sort of like,
433
00:22:16.876 --> 00:22:19.047
she's overreacting a bit,
434
00:22:19.047 --> 00:22:24.047
she's sort of gone down a rabbit hole for everybody else.
435
00:22:24.259 --> 00:22:25.092
And you know,
436
00:22:25.092 --> 00:22:26.236
this is going to be bigger than Ben Hur
437
00:22:26.236 --> 00:22:27.923
and they knock on effect of all of this is
438
00:22:27.923 --> 00:22:29.500
going to be so huge.
439
00:22:29.500 --> 00:22:31.000
And she was right.
440
00:22:35.304 --> 00:22:38.971
But eventually my nine months came to an end
441
00:22:40.071 --> 00:22:44.821
and basically I went to start my freelance business again
442
00:22:47.090 --> 00:22:49.995
at the first sort of lockdown in Sydney.
443
00:22:49.995 --> 00:22:53.078
I sort of thought, wow, this is this,
444
00:22:54.167 --> 00:22:57.938
this is doesn't exactly feel like really great timing
445
00:22:57.938 --> 00:22:59.898
to jump back into being a freelancer.
446
00:22:59.898 --> 00:23:03.398
I also have my mum, so I had this sort of,
447
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:07.605
well, not that it's only mothers doing homeschooling,
448
00:23:07.605 --> 00:23:11.856
but my husband and I had two kids to homeschool.
449
00:23:11.856 --> 00:23:13.640
So perhaps it was like,
450
00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:16.389
oh, maybe I need to spend a bit of time at home.
451
00:23:16.389 --> 00:23:20.815
But yeah, I called the Herald who I'd worked for before
452
00:23:20.815 --> 00:23:23.065
and Mag sort of said to me,
453
00:23:24.024 --> 00:23:26.466
oh now we've cut our shifts right back.
454
00:23:26.466 --> 00:23:28.049
And I'm like, okay.
455
00:23:30.099 --> 00:23:32.058
And then I think a day later,
456
00:23:32.058 --> 00:23:35.119
the next day she called me and said, can you work?
457
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:36.365
And notice what I'm thinking?
458
00:23:36.365 --> 00:23:37.198
Yes.
459
00:23:39.522 --> 00:23:41.251
Which was really sweet.
460
00:23:41.251 --> 00:23:43.490
And even, I think the thing with that sort of stuff
461
00:23:43.490 --> 00:23:45.992
is like psychologically, you know,
462
00:23:45.992 --> 00:23:49.770
it was just so reassuring to sort of feel like, oh my gosh,
463
00:23:49.770 --> 00:23:52.373
I can work again because yeah.
464
00:23:52.373 --> 00:23:53.753
It was quite scary to try
465
00:23:53.753 --> 00:23:56.504
and sort of resurrect my freelance career
466
00:23:56.504 --> 00:23:57.715
in that sort of mode.
467
00:23:57.715 --> 00:24:01.498
And I used to travel up to Hong Kong once a year
468
00:24:01.498 --> 00:24:06.331
to work on the big art Basel show that they have up there,
469
00:24:07.237 --> 00:24:09.717
but that was cancelled and then obviously
470
00:24:09.717 --> 00:24:12.037
travel wasn't possible.
471
00:24:12.037 --> 00:24:14.954
So that sort of put an end to that.
472
00:24:16.250 --> 00:24:17.656
And yeah.
473
00:24:17.656 --> 00:24:20.246
But then this last locked down,
474
00:24:20.246 --> 00:24:22.256
I feel like I was really fortunate.
475
00:24:22.256 --> 00:24:24.769
I picked up, I did a bit of work in sort of TV
476
00:24:24.769 --> 00:24:29.769
and I think the film and TV industry in this last lockdown
477
00:24:30.296 --> 00:24:32.237
seemed to be one of the areas
478
00:24:32.237 --> 00:24:34.024
that just sort of charged ahead.
479
00:24:34.024 --> 00:24:34.857
So yeah.
480
00:24:36.674 --> 00:24:37.710
But yeah.
481
00:24:37.710 --> 00:24:41.147
And that's the thing, I mean, when you're working
482
00:24:41.147 --> 00:24:45.821
you just feel so grateful because I've got so many people,
483
00:24:45.821 --> 00:24:47.008
I have not been able to work.
484
00:24:47.008 --> 00:24:50.993
It's been really tough in the arts industry.
485
00:24:50.993 --> 00:24:53.383
I just think, you know, actors, oh my gosh.
486
00:24:53.383 --> 00:24:54.957
You know the theatre.
487
00:24:54.957 --> 00:24:56.663
So much everything.
488
00:24:56.663 --> 00:24:57.588
So many businesses.
489
00:24:57.588 --> 00:25:00.294
Yeah, yeah, it unknown as well
490
00:25:00.294 --> 00:25:03.558
of how long it lasts for, we don't, you know.
491
00:25:03.558 --> 00:25:05.891
And it's that we don't know.
492
00:25:08.836 --> 00:25:10.227
What about, can you tell us about
493
00:25:10.227 --> 00:25:12.115
a lot of people always ask about cameras
494
00:25:12.115 --> 00:25:13.552
and technical equipment.
495
00:25:13.552 --> 00:25:17.375
So what is your selected equipment that you use?
496
00:25:17.375 --> 00:25:21.263
Well, I've been with cannon for a while.
497
00:25:21.263 --> 00:25:25.084
I guess people sort of have often stick to a brand
498
00:25:25.084 --> 00:25:27.667
for probably the most practical
499
00:25:29.391 --> 00:25:31.227
and sort of financial sort of sense
500
00:25:31.227 --> 00:25:33.907
to sort of stick with one sort of brand
501
00:25:33.907 --> 00:25:38.157
so that you can interchange lenses and all of that.
502
00:25:40.772 --> 00:25:42.068
Yes I use Canon
503
00:25:42.068 --> 00:25:45.865
and I have this lovely underwater housing
504
00:25:45.865 --> 00:25:49.865
that I used for a shot of Saskia and Mark Tesco.
505
00:25:52.593 --> 00:25:56.541
But yeah, it's funny you know, I think with technology,
506
00:25:56.541 --> 00:26:01.103
look, I work in an industry where you do have to keep
507
00:26:01.103 --> 00:26:03.214
abreast of things.
508
00:26:03.214 --> 00:26:06.215
It's sort of competitive particularly news,
509
00:26:06.215 --> 00:26:09.862
there's the essence is always on quick turnaround.
510
00:26:09.862 --> 00:26:12.291
I'm doing, you know, like the 24 hour news cycle
511
00:26:12.291 --> 00:26:15.541
where everyone's sort of a slave to it.
512
00:26:18.167 --> 00:26:20.261
But saying that, you know,
513
00:26:20.261 --> 00:26:23.556
I think people sometimes are like,
514
00:26:23.556 --> 00:26:25.979
oh, you know mobile phones are getting so good.
515
00:26:25.979 --> 00:26:28.210
You know, (indistinct) out of work soon.
516
00:26:28.210 --> 00:26:30.799
And I'm, I've never really felt that threatened by
517
00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.952
that sort of thing because at the end of the day,
518
00:26:33.952 --> 00:26:38.952
someone might shoot the most amazing sequence of pictures
519
00:26:39.024 --> 00:26:41.575
with their mobile phone and that's great.
520
00:26:41.575 --> 00:26:45.496
But I really think it comes down to ideas.
521
00:26:45.496 --> 00:26:49.079
It comes down to a lot more than, you know,
522
00:26:51.013 --> 00:26:55.025
I think the equipment is the other tools to do the job.
523
00:26:55.025 --> 00:27:00.025
But that's sort of really, really, really, you know.
524
00:27:00.107 --> 00:27:02.850
And then saying that some of the most beautiful images
525
00:27:02.850 --> 00:27:05.055
can be taken on, you know,
526
00:27:05.055 --> 00:27:09.888
plastic cameras that leave light and have that accidental,
527
00:27:10.925 --> 00:27:14.258
you know, (indistinct).
528
00:27:15.846 --> 00:27:17.079
So yeah, horses because it's, you know.
529
00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:18.315
Yeah.
530
00:27:18.315 --> 00:27:22.396
What about any tips for aspiring photographers?
531
00:27:22.396 --> 00:27:26.773
My tips would be, you really just have to get out there
532
00:27:26.773 --> 00:27:28.431
and take a lot of images.
533
00:27:28.431 --> 00:27:32.514
I do think there's a little bit with photography.
534
00:27:33.682 --> 00:27:35.624
Look, there are people that are just,
535
00:27:35.624 --> 00:27:37.492
who are amazingly talented
536
00:27:37.492 --> 00:27:40.220
and you feel like they could just,
537
00:27:40.220 --> 00:27:42.562
I mean, dive, just take a quick shot.
538
00:27:42.562 --> 00:27:46.282
But saying that I actually, you know, like I work with,
539
00:27:46.282 --> 00:27:49.371
you know, and know a lot of really amazing photographers,
540
00:27:49.371 --> 00:27:51.014
but to be honest,
541
00:27:51.014 --> 00:27:53.323
I think a lot of it just comes down to a lot of, you know,
542
00:27:53.323 --> 00:27:57.859
like most things in life, old fashion, hard work
543
00:27:57.859 --> 00:28:01.026
and photographing a lot, I've sort of,
544
00:28:02.156 --> 00:28:04.510
I've often thought that perhaps it's a little bit like
545
00:28:04.510 --> 00:28:06.288
playing an instrument where, you know,
546
00:28:06.288 --> 00:28:09.038
if you don't play for a long time
547
00:28:10.111 --> 00:28:12.518
you become a bit stale and rusty
548
00:28:12.518 --> 00:28:17.482
and you probably need to get back and do your scales.
549
00:28:17.482 --> 00:28:19.857
So I would say, take lots of images,
550
00:28:19.857 --> 00:28:21.524
don't make mistakes,
551
00:28:22.973 --> 00:28:25.538
sometimes from mistakes come the best things.
552
00:28:25.538 --> 00:28:28.121
So be bold, be brave and light.
553
00:28:34.715 --> 00:28:36.048
Talk about life.
554
00:28:38.890 --> 00:28:41.471
We're pretty lucky here in Australia with our light.
555
00:28:41.471 --> 00:28:43.054
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
556
00:28:45.696 --> 00:28:47.613
And don't, and be bold.
557
00:28:48.459 --> 00:28:51.699
Don't let people say that you, you know,
558
00:28:51.699 --> 00:28:55.980
I remember when I started a career sort of saying that
559
00:28:55.980 --> 00:28:59.129
to a photographer, you know,
560
00:28:59.129 --> 00:29:01.429
I wanted to sort of get into photo journalism
561
00:29:01.429 --> 00:29:03.021
and get into the papers.
562
00:29:03.021 --> 00:29:04.798
And they said, oh, you're not,
563
00:29:04.798 --> 00:29:06.143
you'll never be able to do that.
564
00:29:06.143 --> 00:29:07.852
You've missed your sort of thing
565
00:29:07.852 --> 00:29:10.327
because they don't do interns anymore or whatever.
566
00:29:10.327 --> 00:29:12.893
And I think it's just, like anything,
567
00:29:12.893 --> 00:29:14.256
you just have to really,
568
00:29:14.256 --> 00:29:16.766
if you want it enough and you work hard enough,
569
00:29:16.766 --> 00:29:17.768
you'll get it.
570
00:29:17.768 --> 00:29:20.135
Excellent advice.
571
00:29:20.135 --> 00:29:23.047
What about photographers or artists in general
572
00:29:23.047 --> 00:29:26.380
that you look up to or that inspire you?
573
00:29:28.690 --> 00:29:31.485
I really love the work of Tracy Moffitt.
574
00:29:31.485 --> 00:29:33.985
She's just wonderfully clever.
575
00:29:37.726 --> 00:29:40.677
I love the humour in her work.
576
00:29:40.677 --> 00:29:42.594
She's really inspiring.
577
00:29:48.345 --> 00:29:50.378
And then I think it's quite remarkable
578
00:29:50.378 --> 00:29:54.795
how she's chosen not to be pigeon-holed as something.
579
00:29:56.836 --> 00:30:00.086
So, yeah, I think she's really amazing.
580
00:30:04.050 --> 00:30:06.688
Been looking at Adam Ferguson's work.
581
00:30:06.688 --> 00:30:08.271
It's really lovely.
582
00:30:11.607 --> 00:30:15.790
Kate Garrity is amazing, I really admire,
583
00:30:15.790 --> 00:30:17.667
she's been a trailblazer I think,
584
00:30:17.667 --> 00:30:20.917
particularly for women in our industry,
585
00:30:23.584 --> 00:30:25.886
she's pretty amazing.
586
00:30:25.886 --> 00:30:30.886
But there's so many, Nick Moir's, you know, Storm Chasers,
587
00:30:30.969 --> 00:30:35.469
he's got lovely work, but there's so many contemporary
588
00:30:38.135 --> 00:30:40.180
if I guess, photojournalists
589
00:30:40.180 --> 00:30:43.763
who are really things were coming at Meyer.
590
00:30:44.747 --> 00:30:46.761
What about, have you got a conscious memory
591
00:30:46.761 --> 00:30:49.594
of the first spider you ever took.
592
00:30:53.295 --> 00:30:56.409
I don't really know about number one photo.
593
00:30:56.409 --> 00:31:00.826
Or even remembering a photo that you took early on?
594
00:31:03.061 --> 00:31:05.125
I took quite a few photos.
595
00:31:05.125 --> 00:31:07.708
I went back to my daddy's check
596
00:31:09.159 --> 00:31:11.992
and we went back to Czechoslovakia
597
00:31:12.996 --> 00:31:17.294
when her veil had taken over and it was no longer communist,
598
00:31:17.294 --> 00:31:21.544
and it was quite bleak still and felt very strange.
599
00:31:23.729 --> 00:31:27.882
When we went there you couldn't buy a postcard in Prague.
600
00:31:27.882 --> 00:31:29.232
And if you wanted food,
601
00:31:29.232 --> 00:31:32.210
you needed to know that you would queue for bread and milk
602
00:31:32.210 --> 00:31:33.709
on certain days.
603
00:31:33.709 --> 00:31:36.292
And it was quite sort of bleak.
604
00:31:37.325 --> 00:31:40.242
And yeah, I took quite a few photos
605
00:31:42.527 --> 00:31:44.610
when I was sort of there.
606
00:31:46.738 --> 00:31:48.861
That sort of, yeah.
607
00:31:48.861 --> 00:31:53.111
I guess I remember a lot of images from art school.
608
00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:58.324
And there was perhaps I look back on some of them
609
00:31:58.324 --> 00:32:01.590
and there was a freedom there, you know,
610
00:32:01.590 --> 00:32:04.837
I did some weird things like projected,
611
00:32:04.837 --> 00:32:08.170
my younger sister was sort of my mousse.
612
00:32:12.225 --> 00:32:13.305
An eighth grade model.
613
00:32:13.305 --> 00:32:14.138
Yeah.
614
00:32:14.138 --> 00:32:14.971
Yeah.
615
00:32:14.971 --> 00:32:16.000
She was my house model
616
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:18.862
and I used to sort of bribe her with things like,
617
00:32:18.862 --> 00:32:21.505
she didn't have a driver's licence and I did,
618
00:32:21.505 --> 00:32:25.443
so I'd sort of, you know, she, if she, you know,
619
00:32:25.443 --> 00:32:27.703
the things I made her do.
620
00:32:27.703 --> 00:32:31.870
Strip naked and lie on rocks and projected sort of
621
00:32:32.740 --> 00:32:35.407
images and things onto her back.
622
00:32:39.206 --> 00:32:40.039
Yeah.
623
00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:42.539
So I think I painted her blue.
624
00:32:44.978 --> 00:32:45.811
So yeah.
625
00:32:45.811 --> 00:32:49.504
Shout out to her sister's patience.
626
00:32:49.504 --> 00:32:50.337
It's awesome.
627
00:32:50.337 --> 00:32:52.898
She was very good to me.
628
00:32:52.898 --> 00:32:54.242
What about a dream subject?
629
00:32:54.242 --> 00:32:57.033
If you could get anyone in front of the camera, anywhere,
630
00:32:57.033 --> 00:33:01.950
anyone in the world, who would you like to take a photo of?
631
00:33:04.071 --> 00:33:08.989
Look, I'm quite interested in politics and politicians.
632
00:33:08.989 --> 00:33:10.469
Gosh, just off the top of my head
633
00:33:10.469 --> 00:33:14.219
I watched that four corners on Angler Merkel.
634
00:33:15.434 --> 00:33:16.276
Yeah.
635
00:33:16.276 --> 00:33:17.109
Yeah.
636
00:33:17.109 --> 00:33:18.551
And I just thought, wow.
637
00:33:18.551 --> 00:33:20.968
I mean, she's pretty amazing.
638
00:33:23.968 --> 00:33:27.704
And someone who's really sort of shaped history,
639
00:33:27.704 --> 00:33:31.204
she would be pretty amazing to photograph.
640
00:33:33.722 --> 00:33:34.634
Yeah.
641
00:33:34.634 --> 00:33:35.727
Strong women.
642
00:33:35.727 --> 00:33:36.560
Yeah.
643
00:33:36.560 --> 00:33:40.810
She'd be pretty amazing to get a seat at the table.
644
00:33:43.789 --> 00:33:45.329
Who else?
645
00:33:45.329 --> 00:33:46.162
Yeah.
646
00:33:46.162 --> 00:33:48.085
You know, sometimes the infamous people
647
00:33:48.085 --> 00:33:49.550
have sort of interesting.
648
00:33:49.550 --> 00:33:50.383
Yeah.
649
00:33:54.483 --> 00:33:57.133
When I was working for the Herald,
650
00:33:57.133 --> 00:34:00.040
I worked on the Ivan Milat sort of story
651
00:34:00.040 --> 00:34:03.540
and ended up having afternoon tea one day,
652
00:34:04.549 --> 00:34:07.274
morning tea with his brother in his house
653
00:34:07.274 --> 00:34:08.314
and photographed him.
654
00:34:08.314 --> 00:34:13.314
He was the one who always maintained his father's innocence.
655
00:34:16.238 --> 00:34:17.241
Incredible.
656
00:34:17.241 --> 00:34:19.944
I don't know lots of people.
657
00:34:19.944 --> 00:34:21.782
I feel like we could talk to you forever,
658
00:34:21.782 --> 00:34:26.782
but we've limited time of all the star is, it's amazing.
659
00:34:26.819 --> 00:34:28.829
What about any shout outs or thank you,
660
00:34:28.829 --> 00:34:32.626
is along your career path, family, well your sister
661
00:34:32.626 --> 00:34:35.253
to start with being painted blue and naked
662
00:34:35.253 --> 00:34:38.025
and being bribed for lifts.
663
00:34:38.025 --> 00:34:38.858
Yeah.
664
00:34:38.858 --> 00:34:40.772
Well, I think everyone has to take their parents
665
00:34:40.772 --> 00:34:42.355
first and foremost.
666
00:34:46.082 --> 00:34:47.286
Thanks to them.
667
00:34:47.286 --> 00:34:49.444
I went to quite alternate sort of schools
668
00:34:49.444 --> 00:34:53.418
where I guess the arts were very much sort of encouraged
669
00:34:53.418 --> 00:34:57.835
and which probably led me to sort of go to art school
670
00:34:58.763 --> 00:35:00.243
as a starting point.
671
00:35:00.243 --> 00:35:01.879
So yeah.
672
00:35:01.879 --> 00:35:05.379
And then, I guess you know, shout outs to,
673
00:35:09.118 --> 00:35:10.887
well at the moment, you know,
674
00:35:10.887 --> 00:35:13.159
I do some work for The Guardian,
675
00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:16.154
and the picture editor there is Kaleo,
676
00:35:16.154 --> 00:35:18.508
and I do some work for the SMH,
677
00:35:18.508 --> 00:35:21.894
and the picture editor there is Max King.
678
00:35:21.894 --> 00:35:24.561
So both, you know, strong women
679
00:35:25.722 --> 00:35:28.472
who really pushing and advocating
680
00:35:29.994 --> 00:35:34.161
for really great photo journalism and portraiture.
681
00:35:37.644 --> 00:35:41.554
So yeah, I feel lucky to have relationships
682
00:35:41.554 --> 00:35:43.903
with both of them in a working capacity.
683
00:35:43.903 --> 00:35:45.163
So yeah, but other people, being lucky enough to work with
684
00:35:54.746 --> 00:35:59.579
Lorena Allum, who's the Aboriginal editor at The Guardian.
685
00:36:00.773 --> 00:36:02.773
She's done amazing work.
686
00:36:05.959 --> 00:36:08.914
She won a sort of a history award.
687
00:36:08.914 --> 00:36:11.310
And I think I've walked clear award for the work
688
00:36:11.310 --> 00:36:14.643
she did with the University of Newcastle
689
00:36:18.252 --> 00:36:21.769
mapping where all the massacre sites are in Australia
690
00:36:21.769 --> 00:36:23.686
and from work with her.
691
00:36:26.433 --> 00:36:29.773
I did a project with her in Maury
692
00:36:29.773 --> 00:36:32.440
about how outrageously expensive
693
00:36:33.572 --> 00:36:36.267
the Maury swimming pool is.
694
00:36:36.267 --> 00:36:40.684
So much so that it means that a lot of first nations,
695
00:36:42.264 --> 00:36:47.105
families cannot afford to take the family to the pool.
696
00:36:47.105 --> 00:36:51.646
And that has a history because that was a town
697
00:36:51.646 --> 00:36:55.063
that was segregated and Aboriginal people
698
00:36:56.432 --> 00:36:59.697
could not swim in the pool for the colour of their skin.
699
00:36:59.697 --> 00:37:03.061
So it feels like history repeating itself.
700
00:37:03.061 --> 00:37:04.284
Because of that assignment
701
00:37:04.284 --> 00:37:07.152
I went back to Maury and did a series of portraits
702
00:37:07.152 --> 00:37:08.635
with the elders there.
703
00:37:08.635 --> 00:37:12.468
And I guess there's a lot been done on stolen.
704
00:37:14.664 --> 00:37:17.296
You know, people were aware of stolen generation,
705
00:37:17.296 --> 00:37:20.463
but I guess the segregated generation
706
00:37:21.541 --> 00:37:24.108
is such a huge thing.
707
00:37:24.108 --> 00:37:27.525
So most Aboriginal people in this country
708
00:37:28.534 --> 00:37:29.951
who were over 55,
709
00:37:31.916 --> 00:37:36.171
lived through some pretty horrific segregation
710
00:37:36.171 --> 00:37:39.754
which is just, you know, so I'm fathomable.
711
00:37:42.080 --> 00:37:43.490
But it's not ancient history.
712
00:37:43.490 --> 00:37:45.352
It happened to...
713
00:37:45.352 --> 00:37:46.793
It's our history.
714
00:37:46.793 --> 00:37:49.779
It's our history who are walking around today,
715
00:37:49.779 --> 00:37:52.679
who lived lived through that.
716
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:54.122
And it's not documented.
717
00:37:54.122 --> 00:37:56.466
It's not well-known, like most people would be shocked
718
00:37:56.466 --> 00:37:57.650
to hear that I think.
719
00:37:57.650 --> 00:38:01.732
Like, well, their personal stories are so shocking,
720
00:38:01.732 --> 00:38:02.815
so shocking.
721
00:38:06.810 --> 00:38:09.378
But it's a tricky one because people are like, well,
722
00:38:09.378 --> 00:38:13.452
you know, don't sort of dwell on the negative,
723
00:38:13.452 --> 00:38:15.202
look at the positive.
724
00:38:16.488 --> 00:38:20.571
But for me again, I guess, you know, speaking to,
725
00:38:22.652 --> 00:38:24.172
and I sort of did all the interviews
726
00:38:24.172 --> 00:38:28.641
with that sort of second time I went to Maury with elders,
727
00:38:28.641 --> 00:38:32.078
just asking them about their childhoods and their memories.
728
00:38:32.078 --> 00:38:35.397
And I guess the thing is that site,
729
00:38:35.397 --> 00:38:39.306
they didn't come to sort of, you know,
730
00:38:39.306 --> 00:38:42.080
whatever I went to them to say,
731
00:38:42.080 --> 00:38:45.456
I wanna learn about what happened to you,
732
00:38:45.456 --> 00:38:49.067
and for some people it was the first time
733
00:38:49.067 --> 00:38:52.484
they had spoken to anyone from the media.
734
00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:57.570
And I felt, I mean, obviously they, you know,
735
00:38:57.570 --> 00:38:59.721
I'm always only photographing and speaking to people
736
00:38:59.721 --> 00:39:00.700
that were up for it.
737
00:39:00.700 --> 00:39:03.880
But I think they were sort of, you know,
738
00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:06.907
there was a sense of, well, oh, wow,
739
00:39:06.907 --> 00:39:08.299
you're interested in my story.
740
00:39:08.299 --> 00:39:11.883
I'm like, yeah, this is part of our history.
741
00:39:11.883 --> 00:39:13.095
This is a huge thing.
742
00:39:13.095 --> 00:39:16.780
This is what happened and people should know about it.
743
00:39:16.780 --> 00:39:20.673
And I think it's just, I guess, for anybody,
744
00:39:20.673 --> 00:39:22.889
if something terrible happens to you,
745
00:39:22.889 --> 00:39:27.472
it's just acknowledging it, just to say okay, apologise
746
00:39:28.725 --> 00:39:32.224
And as well, if your voice has been quietened for so long,
747
00:39:32.224 --> 00:39:35.220
you need that invitation to tell your story.
748
00:39:35.220 --> 00:39:39.302
If it's been squashed down and quiet and so long,
749
00:39:39.302 --> 00:39:42.168
they need someone to say, tell us your story.
750
00:39:42.168 --> 00:39:43.129
Yeah.
751
00:39:43.129 --> 00:39:43.962
Yeah.
752
00:39:43.962 --> 00:39:47.712
Well the thing with the outbreak of COVID in,
753
00:39:50.684 --> 00:39:53.351
well Kenya was really, you know,
754
00:39:55.578 --> 00:39:59.745
as indigenous Aboriginal eldest pointed out to me,
755
00:40:01.941 --> 00:40:03.464
it was brought about
756
00:40:03.464 --> 00:40:07.440
by the really poor housing conditions there.
757
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:11.190
And of course that all harks back to history,
758
00:40:13.308 --> 00:40:17.141
having your land and your land stolen from you
759
00:40:18.846 --> 00:40:21.595
and the knock-on effect of all of that.
760
00:40:21.595 --> 00:40:24.845
And so the virus just sort of, I guess,
761
00:40:28.746 --> 00:40:32.743
was sort of, you know, I guess it just exposed
762
00:40:32.743 --> 00:40:37.160
all those things that were problems there originally.
763
00:40:38.772 --> 00:40:42.522
And so, you know, I guess from negative stuff
764
00:40:44.734 --> 00:40:46.034
sometimes good comes.
765
00:40:46.034 --> 00:40:49.166
So hopefully, you know, that is a real wake up call,
766
00:40:49.166 --> 00:40:52.749
but that there needs to be some money spent
767
00:40:54.158 --> 00:40:56.987
on decent housing so that
768
00:40:56.987 --> 00:41:01.820
people aren't living in such cramped difficult situations.
769
00:41:03.188 --> 00:41:04.388
Yeah.
770
00:41:04.388 --> 00:41:08.556
I mean that privilege that's taken for granted as well
771
00:41:08.556 --> 00:41:10.921
with some of the policies,
772
00:41:10.921 --> 00:41:12.516
like, oh, self isolate or, you know.
773
00:41:12.516 --> 00:41:15.666
(both indistinctly speaking)
774
00:41:15.666 --> 00:41:18.814
Oh, and the thing with isolating, I mean,
775
00:41:18.814 --> 00:41:21.879
I drove back from Kenya and I thought,
776
00:41:21.879 --> 00:41:26.859
gosh, I've been in an area, I was really, really careful,
777
00:41:26.859 --> 00:41:30.213
but I thought I better get tested and then come home.
778
00:41:30.213 --> 00:41:34.897
And I got tested in Dubbo and I thought I'd get the result.
779
00:41:34.897 --> 00:41:36.685
My colleague had got tested.
780
00:41:36.685 --> 00:41:39.377
I was bringing up, they turned it around in four hours.
781
00:41:39.377 --> 00:41:41.350
I was like, okay, great, I'll get tested.
782
00:41:41.350 --> 00:41:44.925
And now I should get it back by the time I'm back in Sydney,
783
00:41:44.925 --> 00:41:46.825
but I didn't get it back in time.
784
00:41:46.825 --> 00:41:51.408
So I tried to isolate from my family and my young kids.
785
00:41:54.997 --> 00:41:58.777
And it was, try and isolate from a seven-year-old kid
786
00:41:58.777 --> 00:42:00.215
who you haven't seen for a week.
787
00:42:00.215 --> 00:42:02.298
It's just, is impossible.
788
00:42:05.603 --> 00:42:09.186
You know, it really made me feel for people
789
00:42:11.203 --> 00:42:15.277
in rural Kenya trying to isolate from your family.
790
00:42:15.277 --> 00:42:16.944
It was just so hard.
791
00:42:20.130 --> 00:42:22.468
Important stories.
792
00:42:22.468 --> 00:42:23.797
Well this is the end of it,
793
00:42:23.797 --> 00:42:26.222
but what would your parting words of wisdom be?
794
00:42:26.222 --> 00:42:29.482
They can be artistic, life philosophy,
795
00:42:29.482 --> 00:42:32.318
whatever you wanna end on.
796
00:42:32.318 --> 00:42:34.735
Being so giving and generous.
797
00:42:39.788 --> 00:42:43.206
If you're a budding photographer, get out there,
798
00:42:43.206 --> 00:42:46.789
take photos, be kind and think about, yeah.
799
00:42:53.853 --> 00:42:55.457
The grasping for words now.
800
00:42:55.457 --> 00:42:58.128
I think for documentary photography,
801
00:42:58.128 --> 00:43:01.210
portraiture, I think is sort of come, you know,
802
00:43:01.210 --> 00:43:02.734
it's come a long way
803
00:43:02.734 --> 00:43:06.567
and I guess the messaging is really important.
804
00:43:06.567 --> 00:43:09.275
What is the messaging that you're giving,
805
00:43:09.275 --> 00:43:11.589
really give that some consideration
806
00:43:11.589 --> 00:43:16.339
because I guess with social media and so forth, you know,
807
00:43:17.715 --> 00:43:20.715
things can travel like wildfire and,
808
00:43:24.303 --> 00:43:29.303
you know, I think it's more important to do the right thing
809
00:43:29.790 --> 00:43:33.688
and the honourable thing and do what you think...
810
00:43:33.688 --> 00:43:36.435
And that may mean that you don't necessarily
811
00:43:36.435 --> 00:43:41.435
get the best picture, but make sure you're working with,
812
00:43:41.660 --> 00:43:45.713
you know, to be ethical in what you're doing.
813
00:43:45.713 --> 00:43:46.546
Try and...
814
00:43:48.088 --> 00:43:49.553
Be ethical and respectful.
815
00:43:49.553 --> 00:43:51.209
Just try and keep that there.
816
00:43:51.209 --> 00:43:52.042
Yeah.