WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.755 --> 00:00:08.346 Could you tell us a little bit about yourself 2 00:00:08.346 --> 00:00:10.173 and your photography practise? 3 00:00:10.173 --> 00:00:13.006 Yeah, so my photography started, 4 00:00:14.085 --> 00:00:19.085 I went to art school after finishing school, I went to COFA. 5 00:00:19.723 --> 00:00:23.806 And I just found myself being more and more drawn 6 00:00:24.701 --> 00:00:26.100 to the photography subjects, 7 00:00:26.100 --> 00:00:29.767 and spending a lot of time in the dark room. 8 00:00:31.361 --> 00:00:33.972 And I went to art school 9 00:00:33.972 --> 00:00:36.196 thinking I'd be an artist and sort of work, 10 00:00:36.196 --> 00:00:40.196 and then I got to the realisation that, oh gosh, 11 00:00:41.756 --> 00:00:44.232 what really am I gonna do to make a living? 12 00:00:44.232 --> 00:00:46.624 And then I was enjoying photography so much. 13 00:00:46.624 --> 00:00:50.624 I thought, oh, photo journalism, that's a thing, 14 00:00:52.355 --> 00:00:53.616 maybe I could do that. 15 00:00:53.616 --> 00:00:56.719 And I was lucky enough that when I contacted the papers 16 00:00:56.719 --> 00:00:57.869 back then they just said, 17 00:00:57.869 --> 00:01:01.702 "All right, yeah, start, do a shift tomorrow." 18 00:01:05.777 --> 00:01:07.008 And that was the beginning 19 00:01:07.008 --> 00:01:10.341 of my photography-working career really. 20 00:01:11.745 --> 00:01:14.506 And I've been lucky enough to... 21 00:01:14.506 --> 00:01:15.533 Yeah, remained gainfully employed by some main, real fluke 22 00:01:21.151 --> 00:01:23.801 and work for Fairfax for a long, long time, now nine. 23 00:01:30.679 --> 00:01:34.166 I moved to Hong Kong with the family 24 00:01:34.166 --> 00:01:37.384 and started freelancing there. 25 00:01:37.384 --> 00:01:42.051 And I had sort of close working relationship with Getty, 26 00:01:43.845 --> 00:01:47.257 and tapped into the arts community in Hong Kong 27 00:01:47.257 --> 00:01:48.090 and then moved back to Sydney, and continued to freelance. 28 00:01:55.143 --> 00:01:56.726 I spent nine months 29 00:01:59.160 --> 00:02:01.966 working as the picture editor for The Guardian. 30 00:02:01.966 --> 00:02:04.466 I took a mat leave role where, 31 00:02:07.524 --> 00:02:10.759 which was fabulous and sort of still have a relationship 32 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:14.574 with The Guardian and work for them from time to time. 33 00:02:14.574 --> 00:02:18.362 Yeah, so pretty amazing career path. 34 00:02:18.362 --> 00:02:21.594 Yeah, and I've been really lucky in that, and Fairfax, 35 00:02:21.594 --> 00:02:22.958 I sort of moved around a bit. 36 00:02:22.958 --> 00:02:25.957 So I started as a freelancer 37 00:02:25.957 --> 00:02:30.957 and then got a role as a photographer at the Fin review, 38 00:02:31.310 --> 00:02:32.907 and then I took a role as a photographer with the SMH, 39 00:02:42.398 --> 00:02:44.907 a staff photographer with the SMH. 40 00:02:44.907 --> 00:02:49.574 I got to picture a little bit for the SMH, which is fun, 41 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:54.489 including things like I was picture editing 42 00:02:54.489 --> 00:02:57.285 because the picture editor was away at the time 43 00:02:57.285 --> 00:03:02.098 during the referendum for independence in East Timor 44 00:03:02.098 --> 00:03:06.552 and Jason South, a photographer was on the ground 45 00:03:06.552 --> 00:03:07.552 for Fairfax. 46 00:03:08.691 --> 00:03:11.024 Yeah, it was pretty amazing. 47 00:03:12.812 --> 00:03:16.732 And then I went to work as a photographer 48 00:03:16.732 --> 00:03:19.565 for the Financial Review magazine. 49 00:03:20.538 --> 00:03:22.478 And then I was also the picture editor 50 00:03:22.478 --> 00:03:25.155 for the Fairfax business publications 51 00:03:25.155 --> 00:03:29.222 which is the centre of the American Financial Review 52 00:03:29.222 --> 00:03:30.055 newspaper. 53 00:03:30.055 --> 00:03:31.891 And then back then there was a whole raft 54 00:03:31.891 --> 00:03:33.455 of business publications. 55 00:03:33.455 --> 00:03:38.074 So we had a department about 20 sort of photographers 56 00:03:38.074 --> 00:03:39.592 working on the country. 57 00:03:39.592 --> 00:03:40.425 Yeah. 58 00:03:40.425 --> 00:03:41.855 Incredible. Yeah. 59 00:03:41.855 --> 00:03:43.214 But you look at your portfolio 60 00:03:43.214 --> 00:03:45.953 and you've shot photos of almost everyone. 61 00:03:45.953 --> 00:03:48.405 There's so many well-named faces in there, 62 00:03:48.405 --> 00:03:50.943 that's pretty amazing. 63 00:03:50.943 --> 00:03:51.776 Yeah. 64 00:03:51.776 --> 00:03:52.826 Look at some... 65 00:03:52.826 --> 00:03:53.659 It is a career which takes you to some interesting places 66 00:03:58.735 --> 00:04:00.928 in corners and yeah. 67 00:04:00.928 --> 00:04:04.761 Now I've been very fortunate to sort of, yeah. 68 00:04:06.615 --> 00:04:09.313 Any standouts of people you've had behind your lens, 69 00:04:09.313 --> 00:04:12.349 like one, no, that like, oh, this is my hero, 70 00:04:12.349 --> 00:04:13.182 or like... 71 00:04:14.020 --> 00:04:18.264 It's funny actually people ask me about, you know, 72 00:04:18.264 --> 00:04:20.212 what's the best sort of photo assignment 73 00:04:20.212 --> 00:04:23.255 or the most person or what have you, 74 00:04:23.255 --> 00:04:25.486 and look, there's lots of great, 75 00:04:25.486 --> 00:04:28.986 but I would have to say that photographing 76 00:04:30.122 --> 00:04:31.990 and having the opportunity 77 00:04:31.990 --> 00:04:35.282 to photograph first nations people 78 00:04:35.282 --> 00:04:38.365 is probably really been the highlight 79 00:04:39.233 --> 00:04:42.400 because there's just so much to learn. 80 00:04:44.625 --> 00:04:48.510 And there's this whole other culture which is right here, 81 00:04:48.510 --> 00:04:49.343 which is so vastly different from, I guess, you know, 82 00:04:54.635 --> 00:04:58.303 the culture that we sort of, well, more familiar with. 83 00:04:58.303 --> 00:05:02.553 And so, for me that is a very rewarding experience. 84 00:05:06.027 --> 00:05:06.860 Really special. 85 00:05:06.860 --> 00:05:07.693 Yeah. 86 00:05:07.693 --> 00:05:12.253 An important one to tell as well and document for everyone. 87 00:05:12.253 --> 00:05:13.285 Yeah. 88 00:05:13.285 --> 00:05:14.165 What about, 89 00:05:14.165 --> 00:05:16.285 could you tell us a bit about your finalist work, 90 00:05:16.285 --> 00:05:18.531 Mark and Saskia call-off. 91 00:05:18.531 --> 00:05:19.364 Oh yeah. 92 00:05:20.594 --> 00:05:21.427 Yeah. 93 00:05:21.427 --> 00:05:25.677 So I had actually been working for the SMH that day 94 00:05:26.530 --> 00:05:30.780 and I had a bit of time sort of left at the end of, 95 00:05:32.110 --> 00:05:33.687 I guess my shift, and I have an underwater camera housing 96 00:05:39.233 --> 00:05:42.424 and I thought, gosh, I'm going to dive into the sea 97 00:05:42.424 --> 00:05:45.929 and just see what I can come up with. 98 00:05:45.929 --> 00:05:49.179 And Sydney was in a lockdown situation, 99 00:05:51.450 --> 00:05:53.997 and they'd had a period where people weren't allowed 100 00:05:53.997 --> 00:05:57.664 to really even utilise or swim at the beach, 101 00:05:59.068 --> 00:06:00.506 and then it sort of loosened a bit 102 00:06:00.506 --> 00:06:03.332 and you could sort of quickly duck down and swim 103 00:06:03.332 --> 00:06:07.633 but you were not to loiter on the sand or anything. 104 00:06:07.633 --> 00:06:11.612 But if you people had been swimming their dogs 105 00:06:11.612 --> 00:06:13.612 off the boat ramp there. 106 00:06:15.579 --> 00:06:17.492 And so I sort of, yeah, 107 00:06:17.492 --> 00:06:19.915 I dived in there and started photographing 108 00:06:19.915 --> 00:06:22.805 and it sort of was a funny thing 109 00:06:22.805 --> 00:06:26.938 cause there's been a lot of underwater photography, 110 00:06:26.938 --> 00:06:28.790 you know, some really great stuff, 111 00:06:28.790 --> 00:06:32.785 but yeah, it's become very popular because it's so much fun. 112 00:06:32.785 --> 00:06:37.203 And, but I sort of had this thing which is like, 113 00:06:37.203 --> 00:06:39.453 oh, dogs and dogs swimming. 114 00:06:41.176 --> 00:06:46.093 No one's really been doing this little niche bit of Sydney. 115 00:06:48.200 --> 00:06:49.547 It was a funny little moment 116 00:06:49.547 --> 00:06:53.153 which I think photographers have from time to time 117 00:06:53.153 --> 00:06:58.153 where they feel like, oh, I feel like I'm sort of, you know, 118 00:06:58.597 --> 00:07:01.264 a smaller little niche thing as it is felt 119 00:07:01.264 --> 00:07:03.875 that I had sort of, was sort of doing something 120 00:07:03.875 --> 00:07:06.243 that was just a bit different at the time. 121 00:07:06.243 --> 00:07:10.076 And yeah, Mark and Saskia really caught my eye 122 00:07:12.161 --> 00:07:16.994 and just sort of were photogenic and now we're, you know, 123 00:07:17.874 --> 00:07:20.721 lovely enough to sort of say, yeah, fine, 124 00:07:20.721 --> 00:07:22.478 you know, let's do some pictures. 125 00:07:22.478 --> 00:07:24.558 And so we, you know, swimming around 126 00:07:24.558 --> 00:07:26.725 doing some shots and yeah. 127 00:07:27.678 --> 00:07:30.011 I guess it's just hopefully, 128 00:07:31.583 --> 00:07:33.720 just a really joyous sort of moment. 129 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:35.198 And that whole sort of thing 130 00:07:35.198 --> 00:07:37.573 I think through this lockdown and pandemic, 131 00:07:37.573 --> 00:07:41.573 there's been a lot of grief for a lot of people. 132 00:07:42.586 --> 00:07:44.290 But there's also been the elements 133 00:07:44.290 --> 00:07:46.375 of people being sort of reminded 134 00:07:46.375 --> 00:07:48.875 of the beautiful parts of life 135 00:07:50.434 --> 00:07:53.733 and sort of stripping things back to basics, 136 00:07:53.733 --> 00:07:55.828 children being able to ride their bicycles 137 00:07:55.828 --> 00:08:00.212 down the middle of roads that were normally, you know, 138 00:08:00.212 --> 00:08:01.744 thoroughfares with traffic 139 00:08:01.744 --> 00:08:02.577 and people turning to their dogs for the way that, you know, 140 00:08:06.571 --> 00:08:09.154 that I haven't for a long time. 141 00:08:11.174 --> 00:08:15.341 I too purchase the four legged, fluffy COVID baby. 142 00:08:18.637 --> 00:08:21.970 So yeah, so that was sort of, it really, 143 00:08:23.579 --> 00:08:24.427 it's a funny, 144 00:08:24.427 --> 00:08:27.233 well actually there's a funny story to this 145 00:08:27.233 --> 00:08:31.267 because when you're in the water with an underwater housing, 146 00:08:31.267 --> 00:08:32.623 you do not have pen and paper 147 00:08:32.623 --> 00:08:36.258 and I'm not organised enough to have a sort of a smartwatch 148 00:08:36.258 --> 00:08:38.319 where you could listen, you know, 149 00:08:38.319 --> 00:08:40.518 record or type someone's name in. 150 00:08:40.518 --> 00:08:42.427 And so I had sort of, oh, what's her name? 151 00:08:42.427 --> 00:08:43.260 Mark. 152 00:08:43.260 --> 00:08:44.450 What's the dog's name Saskia. 153 00:08:44.450 --> 00:08:45.450 Yeah, great. 154 00:08:46.468 --> 00:08:49.060 And it wasn't till I got out of the water 155 00:08:49.060 --> 00:08:52.521 and was looking at the pictures and I'm like, 156 00:08:52.521 --> 00:08:55.148 oh, I think that one's good. 157 00:08:55.148 --> 00:08:56.231 Oh, I'm great. 158 00:08:56.231 --> 00:08:57.064 It's sharp. 159 00:08:57.064 --> 00:08:57.897 Yeah. 160 00:08:57.897 --> 00:09:01.615 There is a thing with underwater photography 161 00:09:01.615 --> 00:09:06.532 where, you know, I mean I'm often just trying not to drown, 162 00:09:11.243 --> 00:09:12.076 So, wow. 163 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.011 You know, and perhaps a little bit more of that 164 00:09:16.011 --> 00:09:19.833 almost darkroom experience of like, oh, oh look, 165 00:09:19.833 --> 00:09:22.234 there's a lot of, particularly in the surf 166 00:09:22.234 --> 00:09:25.051 where you've got sort of waves and so forth, 167 00:09:25.051 --> 00:09:27.531 there's that I guess, you know, 168 00:09:27.531 --> 00:09:32.531 accidental sort of stuff that goes on which is sort of fun. 169 00:09:32.537 --> 00:09:33.851 And so yeah, so I'm like, 170 00:09:33.851 --> 00:09:35.717 oh, this is a really good shot. 171 00:09:35.717 --> 00:09:37.946 And then it was like, oh, you know, 172 00:09:37.946 --> 00:09:41.883 I presented them to the SMH and they were like, 173 00:09:41.883 --> 00:09:45.176 yeah, great, but we'd like to speak to this man, 174 00:09:45.176 --> 00:09:46.759 what's his surname? 175 00:09:48.059 --> 00:09:51.085 So I ended up doing the weirdest thing 176 00:09:51.085 --> 00:09:53.692 and I went and put a little, 177 00:09:53.692 --> 00:09:56.775 like a poster queue down by the fibre 178 00:09:57.941 --> 00:10:01.180 by the boat ramp there thinking, look, 179 00:10:01.180 --> 00:10:03.997 I'm sure he's a local and he probably comes here, you know, 180 00:10:03.997 --> 00:10:05.581 cause his dog enjoyed this. 181 00:10:05.581 --> 00:10:10.177 So hopefully he'll see this and he'll respond. 182 00:10:10.177 --> 00:10:11.637 And he did. 183 00:10:11.637 --> 00:10:14.046 But the funny thing was that he called Nick Moir, 184 00:10:14.046 --> 00:10:17.946 my colleague at the SMH, probably because, you know, 185 00:10:17.946 --> 00:10:19.343 he's a very, well-known, 186 00:10:19.343 --> 00:10:22.298 he is the chief photographer at the Herald 187 00:10:22.298 --> 00:10:24.129 and perhaps he just sort of felt, 188 00:10:24.129 --> 00:10:26.237 she said she was working for the Herald. 189 00:10:26.237 --> 00:10:30.987 I'm gonna (indistinct). 190 00:10:30.987 --> 00:10:33.764 So Nick called me and said, oh, this guy got in. 191 00:10:33.764 --> 00:10:37.850 And I got his poster you put down and I'm like, anyway. 192 00:10:37.850 --> 00:10:41.133 So we got in contact like that and yeah. 193 00:10:41.133 --> 00:10:41.966 Cool. 194 00:10:41.966 --> 00:10:42.799 Awesome. 195 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:43.632 Yeah. 196 00:10:43.632 --> 00:10:45.184 It's really nice in the exhibition 197 00:10:45.184 --> 00:10:48.324 and you touched on it as well, like it's a joyous moment 198 00:10:48.324 --> 00:10:50.276 and you're when you come and see the show 199 00:10:50.276 --> 00:10:52.336 and you've probably seen it. 200 00:10:52.336 --> 00:10:55.295 It really is a moment of relief. 201 00:10:55.295 --> 00:10:56.894 You know, it's some darker themes in there 202 00:10:56.894 --> 00:10:59.466 that when you look at and it just makes you smile as well. 203 00:10:59.466 --> 00:11:03.017 Like it's so texturally rich that you're first, 204 00:11:03.017 --> 00:11:05.065 you look at it and you just smile and feel that joy 205 00:11:05.065 --> 00:11:06.898 and that the beach, 206 00:11:06.898 --> 00:11:09.561 but then you start looking at those textures of the water 207 00:11:09.561 --> 00:11:13.501 and the dog's fair and it's just like incredible. 208 00:11:13.501 --> 00:11:14.583 Oh, thank you. 209 00:11:14.583 --> 00:11:15.416 Thanks. 210 00:11:15.416 --> 00:11:16.249 Yeah. 211 00:11:16.249 --> 00:11:19.999 Funny when I think I just finished art school 212 00:11:21.243 --> 00:11:25.495 and I volunteered to do some work at the art gallery 213 00:11:25.495 --> 00:11:27.078 of new South Wales. 214 00:11:28.171 --> 00:11:33.125 And I was really lucky that while I was volunteering 215 00:11:33.125 --> 00:11:37.217 to sort of help out in the photographic department there, 216 00:11:37.217 --> 00:11:40.398 Elliot Erwitt was having a show called, 217 00:11:40.398 --> 00:11:42.648 I think it's to the dogs. 218 00:11:42.648 --> 00:11:44.790 Cause he's a Magnum photographer 219 00:11:44.790 --> 00:11:48.207 who's famous for his documentary on dogs. 220 00:11:50.243 --> 00:11:54.743 And also his images of a lot of sort of humour in them, 221 00:11:56.322 --> 00:11:57.661 and they're upbeat and 222 00:11:57.661 --> 00:12:00.789 I think he was one of the first sort of 223 00:12:00.789 --> 00:12:01.881 Magnum photographers. 224 00:12:01.881 --> 00:12:05.615 He wasn't sort of just, sort of doing war and distress 225 00:12:05.615 --> 00:12:06.726 and everything. 226 00:12:06.726 --> 00:12:08.600 And he actually I think copped initially 227 00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:10.429 quite a bit of flack for sort of, you know, 228 00:12:10.429 --> 00:12:11.700 not you're not a serious photographer 229 00:12:11.700 --> 00:12:14.812 because we're not sort of dealing with those subjects. 230 00:12:14.812 --> 00:12:16.594 But anyway, when he was in Sydney 231 00:12:16.594 --> 00:12:19.177 and having his show hung there, 232 00:12:20.784 --> 00:12:24.213 he wanted to do some photography around Sydney, 233 00:12:24.213 --> 00:12:28.038 and he wanted someone to assist him. 234 00:12:28.038 --> 00:12:30.350 And so I was like, oh yes. 235 00:12:30.350 --> 00:12:34.100 So I was very lucky to spend a couple of days 236 00:12:35.710 --> 00:12:37.710 working with the master. 237 00:12:39.443 --> 00:12:40.610 That's awesome. 238 00:12:40.610 --> 00:12:41.443 Yeah. 239 00:12:41.443 --> 00:12:42.883 And it's a funny thing too. 240 00:12:42.883 --> 00:12:45.673 And maybe it's that thing that when you drive, I dunno, 241 00:12:45.673 --> 00:12:48.911 a yellow V dub, you start seeing yellow V dubs. 242 00:12:48.911 --> 00:12:51.129 Everywhere we went we were sort of like 243 00:12:51.129 --> 00:12:55.046 dogs doing some really weird incredible things. 244 00:12:56.632 --> 00:12:57.735 Where the God at? 245 00:12:57.735 --> 00:13:00.494 It's like three old men sitting at a table 246 00:13:00.494 --> 00:13:03.837 and there's the old dog who's sort of like, you know, 247 00:13:03.837 --> 00:13:08.676 in tuned to the conversation, what sort of thing? 248 00:13:08.676 --> 00:13:09.655 That's amazing. 249 00:13:09.655 --> 00:13:12.928 And you've got a distinction award as well for your work. 250 00:13:12.928 --> 00:13:14.895 I was pretty blown away by that. 251 00:13:14.895 --> 00:13:16.090 Yeah. 252 00:13:16.090 --> 00:13:19.533 And particularly I keep seeing the Instagram feed 253 00:13:19.533 --> 00:13:21.014 of images coming through 254 00:13:21.014 --> 00:13:23.597 and just thinking, that's amazing. 255 00:13:23.597 --> 00:13:28.430 Where this such a beautiful sort of depth of images there. 256 00:13:29.932 --> 00:13:32.648 There's one, two from the bush fires 257 00:13:32.648 --> 00:13:35.464 when I was picture editing at The Guardian, 258 00:13:35.464 --> 00:13:40.297 we certainly ran that image of the young girl on the boat. 259 00:13:41.599 --> 00:13:42.593 Yes. 260 00:13:42.593 --> 00:13:44.166 The Alison Maryanne line. 261 00:13:44.166 --> 00:13:46.765 Yeah, such a powerful image, 262 00:13:46.765 --> 00:13:49.348 for me that was a real standout 263 00:13:50.588 --> 00:13:55.154 of all the incredible strong images coming, you know, 264 00:13:55.154 --> 00:13:58.821 harrowing images coming from the bush fires. 265 00:14:00.400 --> 00:14:04.791 But, I mean, I almost tear up when I think back, 266 00:14:04.791 --> 00:14:07.208 I covered the bush fires too, 267 00:14:08.451 --> 00:14:10.784 and it's just, was so awful. 268 00:14:12.611 --> 00:14:13.602 We did... 269 00:14:13.602 --> 00:14:16.335 I'm not sure if he saw our sort of a panel 270 00:14:16.335 --> 00:14:18.513 that we had at the start of the show 271 00:14:18.513 --> 00:14:20.791 and we had sort of Mike Bauers and Christine... 272 00:14:20.791 --> 00:14:21.682 Yeah. 273 00:14:21.682 --> 00:14:23.566 Yeah, I listened into that. 274 00:14:23.566 --> 00:14:26.264 Mike is obviously a photographer for the guidance. 275 00:14:26.264 --> 00:14:27.130 Yeah. 276 00:14:27.130 --> 00:14:30.134 So I know I've worked alongside Mike for a very long time. 277 00:14:30.134 --> 00:14:32.390 So when I was picture editor at the Fin review, 278 00:14:32.390 --> 00:14:35.518 he was picture editor at the SMH numb. 279 00:14:35.518 --> 00:14:39.032 So we have a very long working history back in and I... 280 00:14:39.032 --> 00:14:40.911 And actually I was picture editing 281 00:14:40.911 --> 00:14:42.874 when he took that incredible photo 282 00:14:42.874 --> 00:14:46.124 where he was on the highway down South, 283 00:14:48.818 --> 00:14:52.948 and this is when the fire literally jumped the highway 284 00:14:52.948 --> 00:14:56.198 and there's a shop with the police car, 285 00:14:57.061 --> 00:15:01.750 and then these huge sort of flames throwing up behind him. 286 00:15:01.750 --> 00:15:04.566 And he does tell a very sort of funny story 287 00:15:04.566 --> 00:15:07.577 and that everyone just jumped in their cars 288 00:15:07.577 --> 00:15:10.610 and had to get the hell out of there as possible. 289 00:15:10.610 --> 00:15:11.570 And he said, 290 00:15:11.570 --> 00:15:14.594 "He was (indistinct speaking) the police officer. 291 00:15:14.594 --> 00:15:15.519 That's right. 292 00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:17.905 (indistinct speaking) 293 00:15:17.905 --> 00:15:19.910 This is a surreal, 294 00:15:19.910 --> 00:15:23.483 I'm breaking the speed limit and I'm chasing them. 295 00:15:23.483 --> 00:15:25.131 Yeah. 296 00:15:25.131 --> 00:15:27.442 But the bit that really, 297 00:15:27.442 --> 00:15:29.542 I think I really check up about 298 00:15:29.542 --> 00:15:30.375 is for me when I was covering the fires, 299 00:15:36.086 --> 00:15:36.919 this sense of are we witnessing a tipping point? 300 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.313 Is this a tipping point? 301 00:15:45.313 --> 00:15:49.480 You know, and hearing of parts of Kangaroo Island 302 00:15:51.546 --> 00:15:53.108 that were totally burnt out. 303 00:15:53.108 --> 00:15:57.503 And yet that is the only habitat where that species lives. 304 00:15:57.503 --> 00:15:59.420 It's just really scary. 305 00:16:00.995 --> 00:16:05.126 And, you know, there is a lot of work being done 306 00:16:05.126 --> 00:16:08.197 on what the effects of the fires have been, 307 00:16:08.197 --> 00:16:09.267 but it's really heartbreaking and hopefully 308 00:16:15.570 --> 00:16:18.284 we don't see the likes of that again. 309 00:16:18.284 --> 00:16:19.123 Yeah. 310 00:16:19.123 --> 00:16:21.040 And it's still ongoing. 311 00:16:22.853 --> 00:16:25.886 The rebuild on the human side, 312 00:16:25.886 --> 00:16:29.513 but nature even is, you know, crazy. 313 00:16:29.513 --> 00:16:32.177 It's still only just the beginnings 314 00:16:32.177 --> 00:16:35.223 of, in a lot of those areas. 315 00:16:35.223 --> 00:16:37.793 Oh and look, I guess with some of them, 316 00:16:37.793 --> 00:16:39.065 they will never be the same. 317 00:16:39.065 --> 00:16:42.157 They won't be a change landscape forever. 318 00:16:42.157 --> 00:16:42.990 Yeah. 319 00:16:44.395 --> 00:16:48.130 One of the works in the show is of the lady's dad. 320 00:16:48.130 --> 00:16:52.081 And that's, I think he's named Al Carter as well, 321 00:16:52.081 --> 00:16:55.081 where he's a biologist in the whole, 322 00:16:55.999 --> 00:16:57.478 his whole property got burnt out. 323 00:16:57.478 --> 00:16:58.962 He'd just had it as far as, 324 00:16:58.962 --> 00:17:03.180 but his way of rebuilding and it's a beautiful little SAR, 325 00:17:03.180 --> 00:17:06.218 I'll send it to you, he just sort of sat 326 00:17:06.218 --> 00:17:09.790 and he started to count the birds coming back one by one. 327 00:17:09.790 --> 00:17:11.442 So he got out his little notebook 328 00:17:11.442 --> 00:17:13.533 and there's this beautiful handwritten list 329 00:17:13.533 --> 00:17:14.632 as he starts to list the birds. 330 00:17:14.632 --> 00:17:16.153 Beautiful. 331 00:17:16.153 --> 00:17:17.740 I'll send you, it's a really, 332 00:17:17.740 --> 00:17:19.934 his daughter wrote an article about it. 333 00:17:19.934 --> 00:17:22.247 He's the subject in one of the photos. 334 00:17:22.247 --> 00:17:23.519 So I sort of dug a bit deeper, 335 00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:27.470 but it gave me a little like tiny glimmer of hope 336 00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:30.260 that, you know, nature is repairing itself. 337 00:17:30.260 --> 00:17:32.979 It may never be the same, but. 338 00:17:32.979 --> 00:17:34.908 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 339 00:17:34.908 --> 00:17:36.040 Yeah. 340 00:17:36.040 --> 00:17:37.647 Oh yeah. 341 00:17:37.647 --> 00:17:38.480 Yeah. 342 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:41.965 It's pretty hard time for a lot of the photographers 343 00:17:41.965 --> 00:17:43.782 that cover that as well. 344 00:17:43.782 --> 00:17:46.470 That emotional toll on everyone. 345 00:17:46.470 --> 00:17:47.502 Oh yeah. 346 00:17:47.502 --> 00:17:51.847 And, but I guess you know as Mike pointed out, 347 00:17:51.847 --> 00:17:54.680 as a photographer, well, you know, 348 00:17:55.620 --> 00:17:58.199 I mean my house wasn't burned down, 349 00:17:58.199 --> 00:18:01.199 I sort of really didn't live through 350 00:18:03.286 --> 00:18:06.360 and we sort of get to, you know, I got to drive. 351 00:18:06.360 --> 00:18:07.610 You got time. 352 00:18:10.126 --> 00:18:13.258 (indistinct), Sydney. 353 00:18:13.258 --> 00:18:14.091 But yeah. 354 00:18:14.091 --> 00:18:15.738 Look, the thing is it's that the cities, 355 00:18:15.738 --> 00:18:18.114 the climate change is the big, you know, 356 00:18:18.114 --> 00:18:22.479 it's the elephant in the room and it will affect all of us 357 00:18:22.479 --> 00:18:24.177 in some way or other. 358 00:18:24.177 --> 00:18:25.189 Already it's. 359 00:18:25.189 --> 00:18:28.772 I don't know of anyone that's not affected. 360 00:18:30.910 --> 00:18:31.775 What do you think? 361 00:18:31.775 --> 00:18:33.546 Like you're already such an accomplished photographer. 362 00:18:33.546 --> 00:18:37.608 What does being part of the prize mean for you? 363 00:18:37.608 --> 00:18:40.000 Oh, it's a huge kudos. 364 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:41.909 I was really, yeah. 365 00:18:41.909 --> 00:18:43.339 You know, I'm chuffed, 366 00:18:43.339 --> 00:18:46.589 I'm so chuffed to be, to be part of it. 367 00:18:47.828 --> 00:18:48.661 Yeah. 368 00:18:50.274 --> 00:18:52.941 It's the lovely acknowledgement. 369 00:18:54.657 --> 00:18:55.490 I think the thing with judging works like a body of work, 370 00:19:00.721 --> 00:19:02.188 like this is, you know, 371 00:19:02.188 --> 00:19:06.891 how do you say that one image is better than another 372 00:19:06.891 --> 00:19:09.715 when they've totally different subject matter? 373 00:19:09.715 --> 00:19:14.715 Of course it's all very subjective, but it's very, yeah. 374 00:19:14.840 --> 00:19:15.857 It's really humbling 375 00:19:15.857 --> 00:19:19.660 and I feel very honoured to be included definitely. 376 00:19:19.660 --> 00:19:20.750 Particularly, you know, 377 00:19:20.750 --> 00:19:24.151 it's just so many fabulous works in there, so yeah. 378 00:19:24.151 --> 00:19:25.755 Really chuffed. 379 00:19:25.755 --> 00:19:26.588 Yeah. 380 00:19:26.588 --> 00:19:29.090 And a special year sort of a themed year as well. 381 00:19:29.090 --> 00:19:31.037 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 382 00:19:31.037 --> 00:19:32.687 Yeah, definitely. 383 00:19:32.687 --> 00:19:34.315 And we've already got one of your works 384 00:19:34.315 --> 00:19:36.232 in our collection here. 385 00:19:37.069 --> 00:19:41.538 A 1998 portrait of Dame Hammond Mitchell I saw. 386 00:19:41.538 --> 00:19:42.410 Yeah. 387 00:19:42.410 --> 00:19:43.450 Yeah. 388 00:19:43.450 --> 00:19:45.606 That goes quite a way back. 389 00:19:45.606 --> 00:19:50.273 I did a series of portraits of elders for Hammond group, 390 00:19:52.888 --> 00:19:56.971 and I guess it was just sort of looking at, yeah. 391 00:19:58.332 --> 00:20:01.481 Framing elders in a different sort of way, 392 00:20:01.481 --> 00:20:04.031 but obvious issues of a trailblazer 393 00:20:04.031 --> 00:20:06.114 and pretty amazing woman. 394 00:20:08.416 --> 00:20:11.666 I'm always really chuffed and thrilled, 395 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:19.367 particularly, you know, working a lot in business, 396 00:20:21.001 --> 00:20:24.577 sort of like a business and political elite to photograph 397 00:20:24.577 --> 00:20:28.755 women who have, you know, have got to where they are, 398 00:20:28.755 --> 00:20:31.985 because there are huge amount of barriers still 399 00:20:31.985 --> 00:20:33.226 in so many fields. 400 00:20:33.226 --> 00:20:34.059 So yeah. 401 00:20:34.059 --> 00:20:36.821 Even yours included, you know? 402 00:20:36.821 --> 00:20:37.654 Yeah. 403 00:20:37.654 --> 00:20:38.487 Yeah. 404 00:20:38.487 --> 00:20:42.408 I have such an amazing career and photo journalism. 405 00:20:42.408 --> 00:20:45.701 So that's always, does always feel really nice 406 00:20:45.701 --> 00:20:49.262 to sort of help, to feel like you're highlighting that 407 00:20:49.262 --> 00:20:51.543 and presenting them in the best light. 408 00:20:51.543 --> 00:20:55.991 So you have, I mean, you said you've got to travel a bit, 409 00:20:55.991 --> 00:20:58.635 but how have locked downs and sort of changes in the world 410 00:20:58.635 --> 00:21:01.061 affected your practise do you think? 411 00:21:01.061 --> 00:21:04.893 I guess professionally and personally with your photography? 412 00:21:04.893 --> 00:21:05.726 Yeah. 413 00:21:06.676 --> 00:21:09.259 Well, I started at The Guardian 414 00:21:10.233 --> 00:21:11.990 before basically the pandemic, 415 00:21:11.990 --> 00:21:15.048 I've took this sort of mat mat leave role. 416 00:21:15.048 --> 00:21:18.048 And literally I guess had to sort of 417 00:21:19.346 --> 00:21:22.528 say to all my freelance clients, 418 00:21:22.528 --> 00:21:24.066 hey, you're all fabulous, 419 00:21:24.066 --> 00:21:26.157 but I'm going off to full-time job now. 420 00:21:26.157 --> 00:21:30.025 So, you know, hopefully I'll see you on the other side 421 00:21:30.025 --> 00:21:31.192 sort of thing. 422 00:21:32.340 --> 00:21:36.610 And while it was at the guardian, it was quite incredible. 423 00:21:36.610 --> 00:21:41.027 I was sitting on my desk was on the international pod 424 00:21:43.098 --> 00:21:47.181 and basically they started a blog on the pandemic 425 00:21:49.478 --> 00:21:53.061 when it broke in Wu Han and I was together, 426 00:21:54.568 --> 00:21:58.651 photo galleries of you know, the deserted streets 427 00:22:03.309 --> 00:22:07.226 and it was quite incredible to sort of I guess, 428 00:22:08.446 --> 00:22:09.862 big picture editing. 429 00:22:09.862 --> 00:22:11.867 And it was sort of funny because there was one woman 430 00:22:11.867 --> 00:22:13.358 on the international desk, 431 00:22:13.358 --> 00:22:15.201 was like, oh my gosh, this is bigger than Ben Hur. 432 00:22:15.201 --> 00:22:16.876 And everyone I think was sort of like, 433 00:22:16.876 --> 00:22:19.047 she's overreacting a bit, 434 00:22:19.047 --> 00:22:24.047 she's sort of gone down a rabbit hole for everybody else. 435 00:22:24.259 --> 00:22:25.092 And you know, 436 00:22:25.092 --> 00:22:26.236 this is going to be bigger than Ben Hur 437 00:22:26.236 --> 00:22:27.923 and they knock on effect of all of this is 438 00:22:27.923 --> 00:22:29.500 going to be so huge. 439 00:22:29.500 --> 00:22:31.000 And she was right. 440 00:22:35.304 --> 00:22:38.971 But eventually my nine months came to an end 441 00:22:40.071 --> 00:22:44.821 and basically I went to start my freelance business again 442 00:22:47.090 --> 00:22:49.995 at the first sort of lockdown in Sydney. 443 00:22:49.995 --> 00:22:53.078 I sort of thought, wow, this is this, 444 00:22:54.167 --> 00:22:57.938 this is doesn't exactly feel like really great timing 445 00:22:57.938 --> 00:22:59.898 to jump back into being a freelancer. 446 00:22:59.898 --> 00:23:03.398 I also have my mum, so I had this sort of, 447 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:07.605 well, not that it's only mothers doing homeschooling, 448 00:23:07.605 --> 00:23:11.856 but my husband and I had two kids to homeschool. 449 00:23:11.856 --> 00:23:13.640 So perhaps it was like, 450 00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:16.389 oh, maybe I need to spend a bit of time at home. 451 00:23:16.389 --> 00:23:20.815 But yeah, I called the Herald who I'd worked for before 452 00:23:20.815 --> 00:23:23.065 and Mag sort of said to me, 453 00:23:24.024 --> 00:23:26.466 oh now we've cut our shifts right back. 454 00:23:26.466 --> 00:23:28.049 And I'm like, okay. 455 00:23:30.099 --> 00:23:32.058 And then I think a day later, 456 00:23:32.058 --> 00:23:35.119 the next day she called me and said, can you work? 457 00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:36.365 And notice what I'm thinking? 458 00:23:36.365 --> 00:23:37.198 Yes. 459 00:23:39.522 --> 00:23:41.251 Which was really sweet. 460 00:23:41.251 --> 00:23:43.490 And even, I think the thing with that sort of stuff 461 00:23:43.490 --> 00:23:45.992 is like psychologically, you know, 462 00:23:45.992 --> 00:23:49.770 it was just so reassuring to sort of feel like, oh my gosh, 463 00:23:49.770 --> 00:23:52.373 I can work again because yeah. 464 00:23:52.373 --> 00:23:53.753 It was quite scary to try 465 00:23:53.753 --> 00:23:56.504 and sort of resurrect my freelance career 466 00:23:56.504 --> 00:23:57.715 in that sort of mode. 467 00:23:57.715 --> 00:24:01.498 And I used to travel up to Hong Kong once a year 468 00:24:01.498 --> 00:24:06.331 to work on the big art Basel show that they have up there, 469 00:24:07.237 --> 00:24:09.717 but that was cancelled and then obviously 470 00:24:09.717 --> 00:24:12.037 travel wasn't possible. 471 00:24:12.037 --> 00:24:14.954 So that sort of put an end to that. 472 00:24:16.250 --> 00:24:17.656 And yeah. 473 00:24:17.656 --> 00:24:20.246 But then this last locked down, 474 00:24:20.246 --> 00:24:22.256 I feel like I was really fortunate. 475 00:24:22.256 --> 00:24:24.769 I picked up, I did a bit of work in sort of TV 476 00:24:24.769 --> 00:24:29.769 and I think the film and TV industry in this last lockdown 477 00:24:30.296 --> 00:24:32.237 seemed to be one of the areas 478 00:24:32.237 --> 00:24:34.024 that just sort of charged ahead. 479 00:24:34.024 --> 00:24:34.857 So yeah. 480 00:24:36.674 --> 00:24:37.710 But yeah. 481 00:24:37.710 --> 00:24:41.147 And that's the thing, I mean, when you're working 482 00:24:41.147 --> 00:24:45.821 you just feel so grateful because I've got so many people, 483 00:24:45.821 --> 00:24:47.008 I have not been able to work. 484 00:24:47.008 --> 00:24:50.993 It's been really tough in the arts industry. 485 00:24:50.993 --> 00:24:53.383 I just think, you know, actors, oh my gosh. 486 00:24:53.383 --> 00:24:54.957 You know the theatre. 487 00:24:54.957 --> 00:24:56.663 So much everything. 488 00:24:56.663 --> 00:24:57.588 So many businesses. 489 00:24:57.588 --> 00:25:00.294 Yeah, yeah, it unknown as well 490 00:25:00.294 --> 00:25:03.558 of how long it lasts for, we don't, you know. 491 00:25:03.558 --> 00:25:05.891 And it's that we don't know. 492 00:25:08.836 --> 00:25:10.227 What about, can you tell us about 493 00:25:10.227 --> 00:25:12.115 a lot of people always ask about cameras 494 00:25:12.115 --> 00:25:13.552 and technical equipment. 495 00:25:13.552 --> 00:25:17.375 So what is your selected equipment that you use? 496 00:25:17.375 --> 00:25:21.263 Well, I've been with cannon for a while. 497 00:25:21.263 --> 00:25:25.084 I guess people sort of have often stick to a brand 498 00:25:25.084 --> 00:25:27.667 for probably the most practical 499 00:25:29.391 --> 00:25:31.227 and sort of financial sort of sense 500 00:25:31.227 --> 00:25:33.907 to sort of stick with one sort of brand 501 00:25:33.907 --> 00:25:38.157 so that you can interchange lenses and all of that. 502 00:25:40.772 --> 00:25:42.068 Yes I use Canon 503 00:25:42.068 --> 00:25:45.865 and I have this lovely underwater housing 504 00:25:45.865 --> 00:25:49.865 that I used for a shot of Saskia and Mark Tesco. 505 00:25:52.593 --> 00:25:56.541 But yeah, it's funny you know, I think with technology, 506 00:25:56.541 --> 00:26:01.103 look, I work in an industry where you do have to keep 507 00:26:01.103 --> 00:26:03.214 abreast of things. 508 00:26:03.214 --> 00:26:06.215 It's sort of competitive particularly news, 509 00:26:06.215 --> 00:26:09.862 there's the essence is always on quick turnaround. 510 00:26:09.862 --> 00:26:12.291 I'm doing, you know, like the 24 hour news cycle 511 00:26:12.291 --> 00:26:15.541 where everyone's sort of a slave to it. 512 00:26:18.167 --> 00:26:20.261 But saying that, you know, 513 00:26:20.261 --> 00:26:23.556 I think people sometimes are like, 514 00:26:23.556 --> 00:26:25.979 oh, you know mobile phones are getting so good. 515 00:26:25.979 --> 00:26:28.210 You know, (indistinct) out of work soon. 516 00:26:28.210 --> 00:26:30.799 And I'm, I've never really felt that threatened by 517 00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.952 that sort of thing because at the end of the day, 518 00:26:33.952 --> 00:26:38.952 someone might shoot the most amazing sequence of pictures 519 00:26:39.024 --> 00:26:41.575 with their mobile phone and that's great. 520 00:26:41.575 --> 00:26:45.496 But I really think it comes down to ideas. 521 00:26:45.496 --> 00:26:49.079 It comes down to a lot more than, you know, 522 00:26:51.013 --> 00:26:55.025 I think the equipment is the other tools to do the job. 523 00:26:55.025 --> 00:27:00.025 But that's sort of really, really, really, you know. 524 00:27:00.107 --> 00:27:02.850 And then saying that some of the most beautiful images 525 00:27:02.850 --> 00:27:05.055 can be taken on, you know, 526 00:27:05.055 --> 00:27:09.888 plastic cameras that leave light and have that accidental, 527 00:27:10.925 --> 00:27:14.258 you know, (indistinct). 528 00:27:15.846 --> 00:27:17.079 So yeah, horses because it's, you know. 529 00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:18.315 Yeah. 530 00:27:18.315 --> 00:27:22.396 What about any tips for aspiring photographers? 531 00:27:22.396 --> 00:27:26.773 My tips would be, you really just have to get out there 532 00:27:26.773 --> 00:27:28.431 and take a lot of images. 533 00:27:28.431 --> 00:27:32.514 I do think there's a little bit with photography. 534 00:27:33.682 --> 00:27:35.624 Look, there are people that are just, 535 00:27:35.624 --> 00:27:37.492 who are amazingly talented 536 00:27:37.492 --> 00:27:40.220 and you feel like they could just, 537 00:27:40.220 --> 00:27:42.562 I mean, dive, just take a quick shot. 538 00:27:42.562 --> 00:27:46.282 But saying that I actually, you know, like I work with, 539 00:27:46.282 --> 00:27:49.371 you know, and know a lot of really amazing photographers, 540 00:27:49.371 --> 00:27:51.014 but to be honest, 541 00:27:51.014 --> 00:27:53.323 I think a lot of it just comes down to a lot of, you know, 542 00:27:53.323 --> 00:27:57.859 like most things in life, old fashion, hard work 543 00:27:57.859 --> 00:28:01.026 and photographing a lot, I've sort of, 544 00:28:02.156 --> 00:28:04.510 I've often thought that perhaps it's a little bit like 545 00:28:04.510 --> 00:28:06.288 playing an instrument where, you know, 546 00:28:06.288 --> 00:28:09.038 if you don't play for a long time 547 00:28:10.111 --> 00:28:12.518 you become a bit stale and rusty 548 00:28:12.518 --> 00:28:17.482 and you probably need to get back and do your scales. 549 00:28:17.482 --> 00:28:19.857 So I would say, take lots of images, 550 00:28:19.857 --> 00:28:21.524 don't make mistakes, 551 00:28:22.973 --> 00:28:25.538 sometimes from mistakes come the best things. 552 00:28:25.538 --> 00:28:28.121 So be bold, be brave and light. 553 00:28:34.715 --> 00:28:36.048 Talk about life. 554 00:28:38.890 --> 00:28:41.471 We're pretty lucky here in Australia with our light. 555 00:28:41.471 --> 00:28:43.054 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 556 00:28:45.696 --> 00:28:47.613 And don't, and be bold. 557 00:28:48.459 --> 00:28:51.699 Don't let people say that you, you know, 558 00:28:51.699 --> 00:28:55.980 I remember when I started a career sort of saying that 559 00:28:55.980 --> 00:28:59.129 to a photographer, you know, 560 00:28:59.129 --> 00:29:01.429 I wanted to sort of get into photo journalism 561 00:29:01.429 --> 00:29:03.021 and get into the papers. 562 00:29:03.021 --> 00:29:04.798 And they said, oh, you're not, 563 00:29:04.798 --> 00:29:06.143 you'll never be able to do that. 564 00:29:06.143 --> 00:29:07.852 You've missed your sort of thing 565 00:29:07.852 --> 00:29:10.327 because they don't do interns anymore or whatever. 566 00:29:10.327 --> 00:29:12.893 And I think it's just, like anything, 567 00:29:12.893 --> 00:29:14.256 you just have to really, 568 00:29:14.256 --> 00:29:16.766 if you want it enough and you work hard enough, 569 00:29:16.766 --> 00:29:17.768 you'll get it. 570 00:29:17.768 --> 00:29:20.135 Excellent advice. 571 00:29:20.135 --> 00:29:23.047 What about photographers or artists in general 572 00:29:23.047 --> 00:29:26.380 that you look up to or that inspire you? 573 00:29:28.690 --> 00:29:31.485 I really love the work of Tracy Moffitt. 574 00:29:31.485 --> 00:29:33.985 She's just wonderfully clever. 575 00:29:37.726 --> 00:29:40.677 I love the humour in her work. 576 00:29:40.677 --> 00:29:42.594 She's really inspiring. 577 00:29:48.345 --> 00:29:50.378 And then I think it's quite remarkable 578 00:29:50.378 --> 00:29:54.795 how she's chosen not to be pigeon-holed as something. 579 00:29:56.836 --> 00:30:00.086 So, yeah, I think she's really amazing. 580 00:30:04.050 --> 00:30:06.688 Been looking at Adam Ferguson's work. 581 00:30:06.688 --> 00:30:08.271 It's really lovely. 582 00:30:11.607 --> 00:30:15.790 Kate Garrity is amazing, I really admire, 583 00:30:15.790 --> 00:30:17.667 she's been a trailblazer I think, 584 00:30:17.667 --> 00:30:20.917 particularly for women in our industry, 585 00:30:23.584 --> 00:30:25.886 she's pretty amazing. 586 00:30:25.886 --> 00:30:30.886 But there's so many, Nick Moir's, you know, Storm Chasers, 587 00:30:30.969 --> 00:30:35.469 he's got lovely work, but there's so many contemporary 588 00:30:38.135 --> 00:30:40.180 if I guess, photojournalists 589 00:30:40.180 --> 00:30:43.763 who are really things were coming at Meyer. 590 00:30:44.747 --> 00:30:46.761 What about, have you got a conscious memory 591 00:30:46.761 --> 00:30:49.594 of the first spider you ever took. 592 00:30:53.295 --> 00:30:56.409 I don't really know about number one photo. 593 00:30:56.409 --> 00:31:00.826 Or even remembering a photo that you took early on? 594 00:31:03.061 --> 00:31:05.125 I took quite a few photos. 595 00:31:05.125 --> 00:31:07.708 I went back to my daddy's check 596 00:31:09.159 --> 00:31:11.992 and we went back to Czechoslovakia 597 00:31:12.996 --> 00:31:17.294 when her veil had taken over and it was no longer communist, 598 00:31:17.294 --> 00:31:21.544 and it was quite bleak still and felt very strange. 599 00:31:23.729 --> 00:31:27.882 When we went there you couldn't buy a postcard in Prague. 600 00:31:27.882 --> 00:31:29.232 And if you wanted food, 601 00:31:29.232 --> 00:31:32.210 you needed to know that you would queue for bread and milk 602 00:31:32.210 --> 00:31:33.709 on certain days. 603 00:31:33.709 --> 00:31:36.292 And it was quite sort of bleak. 604 00:31:37.325 --> 00:31:40.242 And yeah, I took quite a few photos 605 00:31:42.527 --> 00:31:44.610 when I was sort of there. 606 00:31:46.738 --> 00:31:48.861 That sort of, yeah. 607 00:31:48.861 --> 00:31:53.111 I guess I remember a lot of images from art school. 608 00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:58.324 And there was perhaps I look back on some of them 609 00:31:58.324 --> 00:32:01.590 and there was a freedom there, you know, 610 00:32:01.590 --> 00:32:04.837 I did some weird things like projected, 611 00:32:04.837 --> 00:32:08.170 my younger sister was sort of my mousse. 612 00:32:12.225 --> 00:32:13.305 An eighth grade model. 613 00:32:13.305 --> 00:32:14.138 Yeah. 614 00:32:14.138 --> 00:32:14.971 Yeah. 615 00:32:14.971 --> 00:32:16.000 She was my house model 616 00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:18.862 and I used to sort of bribe her with things like, 617 00:32:18.862 --> 00:32:21.505 she didn't have a driver's licence and I did, 618 00:32:21.505 --> 00:32:25.443 so I'd sort of, you know, she, if she, you know, 619 00:32:25.443 --> 00:32:27.703 the things I made her do. 620 00:32:27.703 --> 00:32:31.870 Strip naked and lie on rocks and projected sort of 621 00:32:32.740 --> 00:32:35.407 images and things onto her back. 622 00:32:39.206 --> 00:32:40.039 Yeah. 623 00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:42.539 So I think I painted her blue. 624 00:32:44.978 --> 00:32:45.811 So yeah. 625 00:32:45.811 --> 00:32:49.504 Shout out to her sister's patience. 626 00:32:49.504 --> 00:32:50.337 It's awesome. 627 00:32:50.337 --> 00:32:52.898 She was very good to me. 628 00:32:52.898 --> 00:32:54.242 What about a dream subject? 629 00:32:54.242 --> 00:32:57.033 If you could get anyone in front of the camera, anywhere, 630 00:32:57.033 --> 00:33:01.950 anyone in the world, who would you like to take a photo of? 631 00:33:04.071 --> 00:33:08.989 Look, I'm quite interested in politics and politicians. 632 00:33:08.989 --> 00:33:10.469 Gosh, just off the top of my head 633 00:33:10.469 --> 00:33:14.219 I watched that four corners on Angler Merkel. 634 00:33:15.434 --> 00:33:16.276 Yeah. 635 00:33:16.276 --> 00:33:17.109 Yeah. 636 00:33:17.109 --> 00:33:18.551 And I just thought, wow. 637 00:33:18.551 --> 00:33:20.968 I mean, she's pretty amazing. 638 00:33:23.968 --> 00:33:27.704 And someone who's really sort of shaped history, 639 00:33:27.704 --> 00:33:31.204 she would be pretty amazing to photograph. 640 00:33:33.722 --> 00:33:34.634 Yeah. 641 00:33:34.634 --> 00:33:35.727 Strong women. 642 00:33:35.727 --> 00:33:36.560 Yeah. 643 00:33:36.560 --> 00:33:40.810 She'd be pretty amazing to get a seat at the table. 644 00:33:43.789 --> 00:33:45.329 Who else? 645 00:33:45.329 --> 00:33:46.162 Yeah. 646 00:33:46.162 --> 00:33:48.085 You know, sometimes the infamous people 647 00:33:48.085 --> 00:33:49.550 have sort of interesting. 648 00:33:49.550 --> 00:33:50.383 Yeah. 649 00:33:54.483 --> 00:33:57.133 When I was working for the Herald, 650 00:33:57.133 --> 00:34:00.040 I worked on the Ivan Milat sort of story 651 00:34:00.040 --> 00:34:03.540 and ended up having afternoon tea one day, 652 00:34:04.549 --> 00:34:07.274 morning tea with his brother in his house 653 00:34:07.274 --> 00:34:08.314 and photographed him. 654 00:34:08.314 --> 00:34:13.314 He was the one who always maintained his father's innocence. 655 00:34:16.238 --> 00:34:17.241 Incredible. 656 00:34:17.241 --> 00:34:19.944 I don't know lots of people. 657 00:34:19.944 --> 00:34:21.782 I feel like we could talk to you forever, 658 00:34:21.782 --> 00:34:26.782 but we've limited time of all the star is, it's amazing. 659 00:34:26.819 --> 00:34:28.829 What about any shout outs or thank you, 660 00:34:28.829 --> 00:34:32.626 is along your career path, family, well your sister 661 00:34:32.626 --> 00:34:35.253 to start with being painted blue and naked 662 00:34:35.253 --> 00:34:38.025 and being bribed for lifts. 663 00:34:38.025 --> 00:34:38.858 Yeah. 664 00:34:38.858 --> 00:34:40.772 Well, I think everyone has to take their parents 665 00:34:40.772 --> 00:34:42.355 first and foremost. 666 00:34:46.082 --> 00:34:47.286 Thanks to them. 667 00:34:47.286 --> 00:34:49.444 I went to quite alternate sort of schools 668 00:34:49.444 --> 00:34:53.418 where I guess the arts were very much sort of encouraged 669 00:34:53.418 --> 00:34:57.835 and which probably led me to sort of go to art school 670 00:34:58.763 --> 00:35:00.243 as a starting point. 671 00:35:00.243 --> 00:35:01.879 So yeah. 672 00:35:01.879 --> 00:35:05.379 And then, I guess you know, shout outs to, 673 00:35:09.118 --> 00:35:10.887 well at the moment, you know, 674 00:35:10.887 --> 00:35:13.159 I do some work for The Guardian, 675 00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:16.154 and the picture editor there is Kaleo, 676 00:35:16.154 --> 00:35:18.508 and I do some work for the SMH, 677 00:35:18.508 --> 00:35:21.894 and the picture editor there is Max King. 678 00:35:21.894 --> 00:35:24.561 So both, you know, strong women 679 00:35:25.722 --> 00:35:28.472 who really pushing and advocating 680 00:35:29.994 --> 00:35:34.161 for really great photo journalism and portraiture. 681 00:35:37.644 --> 00:35:41.554 So yeah, I feel lucky to have relationships 682 00:35:41.554 --> 00:35:43.903 with both of them in a working capacity. 683 00:35:43.903 --> 00:35:45.163 So yeah, but other people, being lucky enough to work with 684 00:35:54.746 --> 00:35:59.579 Lorena Allum, who's the Aboriginal editor at The Guardian. 685 00:36:00.773 --> 00:36:02.773 She's done amazing work. 686 00:36:05.959 --> 00:36:08.914 She won a sort of a history award. 687 00:36:08.914 --> 00:36:11.310 And I think I've walked clear award for the work 688 00:36:11.310 --> 00:36:14.643 she did with the University of Newcastle 689 00:36:18.252 --> 00:36:21.769 mapping where all the massacre sites are in Australia 690 00:36:21.769 --> 00:36:23.686 and from work with her. 691 00:36:26.433 --> 00:36:29.773 I did a project with her in Maury 692 00:36:29.773 --> 00:36:32.440 about how outrageously expensive 693 00:36:33.572 --> 00:36:36.267 the Maury swimming pool is. 694 00:36:36.267 --> 00:36:40.684 So much so that it means that a lot of first nations, 695 00:36:42.264 --> 00:36:47.105 families cannot afford to take the family to the pool. 696 00:36:47.105 --> 00:36:51.646 And that has a history because that was a town 697 00:36:51.646 --> 00:36:55.063 that was segregated and Aboriginal people 698 00:36:56.432 --> 00:36:59.697 could not swim in the pool for the colour of their skin. 699 00:36:59.697 --> 00:37:03.061 So it feels like history repeating itself. 700 00:37:03.061 --> 00:37:04.284 Because of that assignment 701 00:37:04.284 --> 00:37:07.152 I went back to Maury and did a series of portraits 702 00:37:07.152 --> 00:37:08.635 with the elders there. 703 00:37:08.635 --> 00:37:12.468 And I guess there's a lot been done on stolen. 704 00:37:14.664 --> 00:37:17.296 You know, people were aware of stolen generation, 705 00:37:17.296 --> 00:37:20.463 but I guess the segregated generation 706 00:37:21.541 --> 00:37:24.108 is such a huge thing. 707 00:37:24.108 --> 00:37:27.525 So most Aboriginal people in this country 708 00:37:28.534 --> 00:37:29.951 who were over 55, 709 00:37:31.916 --> 00:37:36.171 lived through some pretty horrific segregation 710 00:37:36.171 --> 00:37:39.754 which is just, you know, so I'm fathomable. 711 00:37:42.080 --> 00:37:43.490 But it's not ancient history. 712 00:37:43.490 --> 00:37:45.352 It happened to... 713 00:37:45.352 --> 00:37:46.793 It's our history. 714 00:37:46.793 --> 00:37:49.779 It's our history who are walking around today, 715 00:37:49.779 --> 00:37:52.679 who lived lived through that. 716 00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:54.122 And it's not documented. 717 00:37:54.122 --> 00:37:56.466 It's not well-known, like most people would be shocked 718 00:37:56.466 --> 00:37:57.650 to hear that I think. 719 00:37:57.650 --> 00:38:01.732 Like, well, their personal stories are so shocking, 720 00:38:01.732 --> 00:38:02.815 so shocking. 721 00:38:06.810 --> 00:38:09.378 But it's a tricky one because people are like, well, 722 00:38:09.378 --> 00:38:13.452 you know, don't sort of dwell on the negative, 723 00:38:13.452 --> 00:38:15.202 look at the positive. 724 00:38:16.488 --> 00:38:20.571 But for me again, I guess, you know, speaking to, 725 00:38:22.652 --> 00:38:24.172 and I sort of did all the interviews 726 00:38:24.172 --> 00:38:28.641 with that sort of second time I went to Maury with elders, 727 00:38:28.641 --> 00:38:32.078 just asking them about their childhoods and their memories. 728 00:38:32.078 --> 00:38:35.397 And I guess the thing is that site, 729 00:38:35.397 --> 00:38:39.306 they didn't come to sort of, you know, 730 00:38:39.306 --> 00:38:42.080 whatever I went to them to say, 731 00:38:42.080 --> 00:38:45.456 I wanna learn about what happened to you, 732 00:38:45.456 --> 00:38:49.067 and for some people it was the first time 733 00:38:49.067 --> 00:38:52.484 they had spoken to anyone from the media. 734 00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:57.570 And I felt, I mean, obviously they, you know, 735 00:38:57.570 --> 00:38:59.721 I'm always only photographing and speaking to people 736 00:38:59.721 --> 00:39:00.700 that were up for it. 737 00:39:00.700 --> 00:39:03.880 But I think they were sort of, you know, 738 00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:06.907 there was a sense of, well, oh, wow, 739 00:39:06.907 --> 00:39:08.299 you're interested in my story. 740 00:39:08.299 --> 00:39:11.883 I'm like, yeah, this is part of our history. 741 00:39:11.883 --> 00:39:13.095 This is a huge thing. 742 00:39:13.095 --> 00:39:16.780 This is what happened and people should know about it. 743 00:39:16.780 --> 00:39:20.673 And I think it's just, I guess, for anybody, 744 00:39:20.673 --> 00:39:22.889 if something terrible happens to you, 745 00:39:22.889 --> 00:39:27.472 it's just acknowledging it, just to say okay, apologise 746 00:39:28.725 --> 00:39:32.224 And as well, if your voice has been quietened for so long, 747 00:39:32.224 --> 00:39:35.220 you need that invitation to tell your story. 748 00:39:35.220 --> 00:39:39.302 If it's been squashed down and quiet and so long, 749 00:39:39.302 --> 00:39:42.168 they need someone to say, tell us your story. 750 00:39:42.168 --> 00:39:43.129 Yeah. 751 00:39:43.129 --> 00:39:43.962 Yeah. 752 00:39:43.962 --> 00:39:47.712 Well the thing with the outbreak of COVID in, 753 00:39:50.684 --> 00:39:53.351 well Kenya was really, you know, 754 00:39:55.578 --> 00:39:59.745 as indigenous Aboriginal eldest pointed out to me, 755 00:40:01.941 --> 00:40:03.464 it was brought about 756 00:40:03.464 --> 00:40:07.440 by the really poor housing conditions there. 757 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:11.190 And of course that all harks back to history, 758 00:40:13.308 --> 00:40:17.141 having your land and your land stolen from you 759 00:40:18.846 --> 00:40:21.595 and the knock-on effect of all of that. 760 00:40:21.595 --> 00:40:24.845 And so the virus just sort of, I guess, 761 00:40:28.746 --> 00:40:32.743 was sort of, you know, I guess it just exposed 762 00:40:32.743 --> 00:40:37.160 all those things that were problems there originally. 763 00:40:38.772 --> 00:40:42.522 And so, you know, I guess from negative stuff 764 00:40:44.734 --> 00:40:46.034 sometimes good comes. 765 00:40:46.034 --> 00:40:49.166 So hopefully, you know, that is a real wake up call, 766 00:40:49.166 --> 00:40:52.749 but that there needs to be some money spent 767 00:40:54.158 --> 00:40:56.987 on decent housing so that 768 00:40:56.987 --> 00:41:01.820 people aren't living in such cramped difficult situations. 769 00:41:03.188 --> 00:41:04.388 Yeah. 770 00:41:04.388 --> 00:41:08.556 I mean that privilege that's taken for granted as well 771 00:41:08.556 --> 00:41:10.921 with some of the policies, 772 00:41:10.921 --> 00:41:12.516 like, oh, self isolate or, you know. 773 00:41:12.516 --> 00:41:15.666 (both indistinctly speaking) 774 00:41:15.666 --> 00:41:18.814 Oh, and the thing with isolating, I mean, 775 00:41:18.814 --> 00:41:21.879 I drove back from Kenya and I thought, 776 00:41:21.879 --> 00:41:26.859 gosh, I've been in an area, I was really, really careful, 777 00:41:26.859 --> 00:41:30.213 but I thought I better get tested and then come home. 778 00:41:30.213 --> 00:41:34.897 And I got tested in Dubbo and I thought I'd get the result. 779 00:41:34.897 --> 00:41:36.685 My colleague had got tested. 780 00:41:36.685 --> 00:41:39.377 I was bringing up, they turned it around in four hours. 781 00:41:39.377 --> 00:41:41.350 I was like, okay, great, I'll get tested. 782 00:41:41.350 --> 00:41:44.925 And now I should get it back by the time I'm back in Sydney, 783 00:41:44.925 --> 00:41:46.825 but I didn't get it back in time. 784 00:41:46.825 --> 00:41:51.408 So I tried to isolate from my family and my young kids. 785 00:41:54.997 --> 00:41:58.777 And it was, try and isolate from a seven-year-old kid 786 00:41:58.777 --> 00:42:00.215 who you haven't seen for a week. 787 00:42:00.215 --> 00:42:02.298 It's just, is impossible. 788 00:42:05.603 --> 00:42:09.186 You know, it really made me feel for people 789 00:42:11.203 --> 00:42:15.277 in rural Kenya trying to isolate from your family. 790 00:42:15.277 --> 00:42:16.944 It was just so hard. 791 00:42:20.130 --> 00:42:22.468 Important stories. 792 00:42:22.468 --> 00:42:23.797 Well this is the end of it, 793 00:42:23.797 --> 00:42:26.222 but what would your parting words of wisdom be? 794 00:42:26.222 --> 00:42:29.482 They can be artistic, life philosophy, 795 00:42:29.482 --> 00:42:32.318 whatever you wanna end on. 796 00:42:32.318 --> 00:42:34.735 Being so giving and generous. 797 00:42:39.788 --> 00:42:43.206 If you're a budding photographer, get out there, 798 00:42:43.206 --> 00:42:46.789 take photos, be kind and think about, yeah. 799 00:42:53.853 --> 00:42:55.457 The grasping for words now. 800 00:42:55.457 --> 00:42:58.128 I think for documentary photography, 801 00:42:58.128 --> 00:43:01.210 portraiture, I think is sort of come, you know, 802 00:43:01.210 --> 00:43:02.734 it's come a long way 803 00:43:02.734 --> 00:43:06.567 and I guess the messaging is really important. 804 00:43:06.567 --> 00:43:09.275 What is the messaging that you're giving, 805 00:43:09.275 --> 00:43:11.589 really give that some consideration 806 00:43:11.589 --> 00:43:16.339 because I guess with social media and so forth, you know, 807 00:43:17.715 --> 00:43:20.715 things can travel like wildfire and, 808 00:43:24.303 --> 00:43:29.303 you know, I think it's more important to do the right thing 809 00:43:29.790 --> 00:43:33.688 and the honourable thing and do what you think... 810 00:43:33.688 --> 00:43:36.435 And that may mean that you don't necessarily 811 00:43:36.435 --> 00:43:41.435 get the best picture, but make sure you're working with, 812 00:43:41.660 --> 00:43:45.713 you know, to be ethical in what you're doing. 813 00:43:45.713 --> 00:43:46.546 Try and... 814 00:43:48.088 --> 00:43:49.553 Be ethical and respectful. 815 00:43:49.553 --> 00:43:51.209 Just try and keep that there. 816 00:43:51.209 --> 00:43:52.042 Yeah.