WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.580 --> 00:00:08.648 We're broadcasting today 2 00:00:08.648 --> 00:00:11.427 from Ngunnawal Ngambri in Canberra. 3 00:00:11.427 --> 00:00:14.197 And we're here interviewing Living Memory 4 00:00:14.197 --> 00:00:17.885 and PPP 2021 finalist, Glen Braithwaite. 5 00:00:17.885 --> 00:00:19.059 How are you? 6 00:00:19.059 --> 00:00:21.376 I'm well, thank you, Tara. Thank you. 7 00:00:21.376 --> 00:00:22.728 All right, so we'll get started. 8 00:00:22.728 --> 00:00:23.896 So I guess first off, 9 00:00:23.896 --> 00:00:26.456 if you could tell us a little bit about yourself 10 00:00:26.456 --> 00:00:28.677 and your photography. 11 00:00:28.677 --> 00:00:29.547 Yeah, absolutely. 12 00:00:29.547 --> 00:00:34.004 So I have been an army officer my whole life. 13 00:00:34.004 --> 00:00:36.184 So I joined the army at 17, 14 00:00:36.184 --> 00:00:39.405 and only last year I retired from the army 15 00:00:39.405 --> 00:00:42.572 after reaching the ripe old age of 50. 16 00:00:43.632 --> 00:00:44.987 But I've always been a photographer. 17 00:00:44.987 --> 00:00:48.312 I've always carried my camera with me while I was at bush. 18 00:00:48.312 --> 00:00:51.675 It was something that I always had. 19 00:00:51.675 --> 00:00:54.053 I'd always rather take a camera in the back of my backpack 20 00:00:54.053 --> 00:00:55.955 rather than extra set of socks. 21 00:00:55.955 --> 00:00:57.664 So it was always a bit sticky, 22 00:00:57.664 --> 00:00:58.856 but I could photograph things. 23 00:00:58.856 --> 00:00:59.757 (Tara Laughs) 24 00:00:59.757 --> 00:01:03.107 So I had over 32 years of army life, 25 00:01:03.107 --> 00:01:05.666 and then I retired last year. 26 00:01:05.666 --> 00:01:08.379 But I've been tinkering around with photography 27 00:01:08.379 --> 00:01:11.077 and semi as a business. 28 00:01:11.077 --> 00:01:13.659 More recently over the last 10 years, 29 00:01:13.659 --> 00:01:15.357 a bit more in the dog photography world, 30 00:01:15.357 --> 00:01:17.668 Insane, but I started off in motor sports. 31 00:01:17.668 --> 00:01:21.887 And I went from motor sports into just general sports, 32 00:01:21.887 --> 00:01:24.277 went into pet photography for a little while, 33 00:01:24.277 --> 00:01:27.877 and because it was convenient and I love my animals. 34 00:01:27.877 --> 00:01:30.589 But more recently I've been doing a lot of para-athletics 35 00:01:30.589 --> 00:01:35.589 and disability sports, but I've always got a camera with me. 36 00:01:35.928 --> 00:01:38.456 Awesome. And with the Paralympics as well, 37 00:01:38.456 --> 00:01:42.626 it would have been pretty inspiring for you? 38 00:01:42.626 --> 00:01:44.259 It was fantastic. 39 00:01:44.259 --> 00:01:45.699 So I've got a lot of good friends here in Canberra, 40 00:01:45.699 --> 00:01:48.058 because a lot of the para-athletes come to Canberra 41 00:01:48.058 --> 00:01:50.979 to do a lot of their training and many live here. 42 00:01:50.979 --> 00:01:53.408 So it was great seeing some of my friends overseas 43 00:01:53.408 --> 00:01:57.325 competing, especially in the wheelchair sports. 44 00:01:58.368 --> 00:01:59.939 It would have been great to be there, 45 00:01:59.939 --> 00:02:03.557 but obviously with COVID you couldn't be. 46 00:02:03.557 --> 00:02:05.357 But I'm hoping that when the para-athletics 47 00:02:05.357 --> 00:02:06.190 kicks off again here in Australia, 48 00:02:06.190 --> 00:02:08.928 when Brisbane got the games, 49 00:02:08.928 --> 00:02:12.091 I'll probably be 60 by then. 50 00:02:12.091 --> 00:02:13.848 But I'd love to get out there with a camera again, 51 00:02:13.848 --> 00:02:15.251 but I will wait and see. 52 00:02:15.251 --> 00:02:16.084 Perfect. 53 00:02:17.011 --> 00:02:19.271 So did you want to tell us a little bit 54 00:02:19.271 --> 00:02:22.271 about your photo Trek for Shona Mai? 55 00:02:23.959 --> 00:02:25.103 And how that came about? 56 00:02:25.103 --> 00:02:26.012 Yeah, absolutely. 57 00:02:26.012 --> 00:02:26.845 So it was an accidental photo. 58 00:02:26.845 --> 00:02:29.428 I was walking my dogs literally 59 00:02:32.071 --> 00:02:34.423 in the part of the Bicentennial Horse Trail, 60 00:02:34.423 --> 00:02:36.501 which is just in front of my place here. 61 00:02:36.501 --> 00:02:39.804 And came across this chap dragging this cart 62 00:02:39.804 --> 00:02:41.121 with his little dog. 63 00:02:41.121 --> 00:02:43.492 And he had a big banner on the side of his cart saying, 64 00:02:43.492 --> 00:02:46.113 "Trek for Shona Mai" and a bit of a Facebook page on it. 65 00:02:46.113 --> 00:02:50.432 And I asked him who he was and what his story was. 66 00:02:50.432 --> 00:02:54.953 And I was so fascinated by Paul. I said, "Park yourself, 67 00:02:54.953 --> 00:02:56.772 I'll be back in five minutes once I've dumped my dogs 68 00:02:56.772 --> 00:02:59.382 and bring my camera back and let's just chat." 69 00:02:59.382 --> 00:03:04.382 And so meeting Paul, it was an inspiring moment, I think. 70 00:03:04.764 --> 00:03:08.347 So Paul, his daughter had committed suicide 71 00:03:09.433 --> 00:03:13.743 about a bit over a year and a half before I met him. 72 00:03:13.743 --> 00:03:16.561 And his way of dealing with the suicide of his daughter, 73 00:03:16.561 --> 00:03:19.004 who was in her 30s at that stage, 74 00:03:19.004 --> 00:03:23.993 was he decided he would walk from Adelaide to Canberra, 75 00:03:23.993 --> 00:03:26.039 trying to raise awareness for mental health. 76 00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:29.269 He had a petition he wanted to raise with government. 77 00:03:29.269 --> 00:03:32.252 He talked about increasing funds for suicide awareness 78 00:03:32.252 --> 00:03:33.407 and mental health. 79 00:03:33.407 --> 00:03:37.324 And so he started a 1,600 kilometre walk from Adelaide, 80 00:03:37.324 --> 00:03:42.172 and it literally took him 13 months to walk that. 81 00:03:42.172 --> 00:03:44.540 And the period in which he walked, 82 00:03:44.540 --> 00:03:47.183 it was throughout all of those big bush fires that were down 83 00:03:47.183 --> 00:03:48.599 south and the drought, 84 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:50.953 and then all the other bad weather we'd had. 85 00:03:50.953 --> 00:03:52.753 And he arrived in Canberra 86 00:03:52.753 --> 00:03:55.692 on the day that COVID had also hit Canberra enough 87 00:03:55.692 --> 00:03:57.772 for parliament to say, 88 00:03:57.772 --> 00:04:00.924 "We're going to close our sessions, we're wrapping up." 89 00:04:00.924 --> 00:04:03.161 And so he literally arrived in Canberra after 13 months of 90 00:04:03.161 --> 00:04:07.169 walking on the day that the politicians backed up and left. 91 00:04:07.169 --> 00:04:11.641 And so by the time he got to us here, near my place, 92 00:04:11.641 --> 00:04:12.783 he had one day of walking left, 93 00:04:12.783 --> 00:04:13.921 he was going to spend the night at 94 00:04:13.921 --> 00:04:18.583 Pegasus Disability Riding Centre, not far from here, 95 00:04:18.583 --> 00:04:21.073 then go to old parliament house and park 96 00:04:21.073 --> 00:04:23.943 in the Tent Embassy Grounds, 97 00:04:23.943 --> 00:04:25.783 and then go and present his petition, 98 00:04:25.783 --> 00:04:29.623 and literally he arrived just a little bit too late. 99 00:04:29.623 --> 00:04:33.183 But listening to him talk about his daughter, 100 00:04:33.183 --> 00:04:36.681 and the things he'd seen and done while trekking, 101 00:04:36.681 --> 00:04:37.761 it was so inspiring, 102 00:04:37.761 --> 00:04:39.423 at a time when everybody was panicking, 103 00:04:39.423 --> 00:04:41.868 because we didn't know what COVID really meant to us 104 00:04:41.868 --> 00:04:45.700 here in Canberra at that stage back in March last year. 105 00:04:45.700 --> 00:04:48.961 So he's an amazing, man. Paul Murcott is his name, 106 00:04:48.961 --> 00:04:51.460 isn't it? And his daughter was Shona Mai. 107 00:04:51.460 --> 00:04:54.780 So people can Google that as well, 108 00:04:54.780 --> 00:04:59.241 or is he on social media that people can support his cause, 109 00:04:59.241 --> 00:05:00.182 or is there a way? 110 00:05:00.182 --> 00:05:01.372 Yeah, absolutely. 111 00:05:01.372 --> 00:05:05.281 So you can Google Trek for Shona Mai 2. 112 00:05:05.281 --> 00:05:08.521 He had an original website and Facebook page for 113 00:05:08.521 --> 00:05:09.463 Trek for Shona Mai, 114 00:05:09.463 --> 00:05:11.649 but it got hacked while he was on his Trek, 115 00:05:11.649 --> 00:05:14.049 and people stole money from him. 116 00:05:14.049 --> 00:05:16.871 And so he had to start a second web page. 117 00:05:16.871 --> 00:05:18.721 So Trek for Shona Mai 2. 118 00:05:18.721 --> 00:05:19.919 And you can learn a little bit about Paul, 119 00:05:19.919 --> 00:05:21.591 but interestingly, every little town 120 00:05:21.591 --> 00:05:22.780 they went through all the way through, 121 00:05:22.780 --> 00:05:26.271 you can see the little news articles as everybody was 122 00:05:26.271 --> 00:05:27.761 fascinated by his trek. 123 00:05:27.761 --> 00:05:29.820 And so you'll see a few of the news articles, 124 00:05:29.820 --> 00:05:32.791 and where he's appeared on the way. 125 00:05:32.791 --> 00:05:34.780 So definitely worth looking up. 126 00:05:34.780 --> 00:05:36.658 He's now down towards the coast, 127 00:05:36.658 --> 00:05:38.921 I think he's got family down that way. 128 00:05:38.921 --> 00:05:40.439 But he's hoping to get up from Nowra 129 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:42.439 to visit the exhibition. 130 00:05:45.087 --> 00:05:47.884 And hopefully that can still happen, 131 00:05:47.884 --> 00:05:50.767 with the exhibition being extended to January. 132 00:05:50.767 --> 00:05:52.639 We'd love to see him here and get his photo 133 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:53.948 and even bring you in. 134 00:05:53.948 --> 00:05:56.977 But I thought one of the lovely things to come out of it, 135 00:05:56.977 --> 00:05:58.468 you were one of the lucky finalists 136 00:05:58.468 --> 00:06:00.339 that actually got to visit the gallery 137 00:06:00.339 --> 00:06:03.399 and I got to meet you in person, 138 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:05.260 and we had a panel that day. 139 00:06:05.260 --> 00:06:07.988 And one of the panel speakers was Christine Morgan 140 00:06:07.988 --> 00:06:11.246 from the Mental Health Commission. 141 00:06:11.246 --> 00:06:13.948 And we're quite focused this year on photography 142 00:06:13.948 --> 00:06:17.660 and art being a means of therapy or outreach 143 00:06:17.660 --> 00:06:20.439 for people as well or connection. 144 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:22.988 So you actually made a connection with Christine after 145 00:06:22.988 --> 00:06:25.109 the exhibition, and then some amazing things 146 00:06:25.109 --> 00:06:27.455 unfolded from that. 147 00:06:27.455 --> 00:06:31.288 Absolutely. Sometimes photos make an impact. 148 00:06:33.308 --> 00:06:34.860 When I first met Paul, 149 00:06:34.860 --> 00:06:38.268 I took those photos and I sent them to the Canberra Times 150 00:06:38.268 --> 00:06:40.180 pretty much that same day, 151 00:06:40.180 --> 00:06:42.660 with just the story about Paul Murcott, Canberra. 152 00:06:42.660 --> 00:06:45.070 But again, that was the time of COVID, 153 00:06:45.070 --> 00:06:46.571 and so they didn't take up the story. 154 00:06:46.571 --> 00:06:48.382 No one went to try and find him 155 00:06:48.382 --> 00:06:51.462 and interview him in those last days when he arrived. 156 00:06:51.462 --> 00:06:52.851 And so it fell flat, 157 00:06:52.851 --> 00:06:54.913 but I felt there was more to that story 158 00:06:54.913 --> 00:06:56.921 that needed to be heard and we wanted to share. 159 00:06:56.921 --> 00:06:59.681 And so meeting Christine Morgan at your panel discussions on 160 00:06:59.681 --> 00:07:03.431 that day the exhibit happened was unexpected, 161 00:07:04.883 --> 00:07:08.902 but it was such a rewarding moment to find somebody who was 162 00:07:08.902 --> 00:07:10.211 not only interested, 163 00:07:10.211 --> 00:07:13.539 but high up and influential in the mental health game 164 00:07:13.539 --> 00:07:15.470 who wanted to learn more about Paul. 165 00:07:15.470 --> 00:07:19.262 And that all of a sudden gave some real meaning to the 166 00:07:19.262 --> 00:07:22.603 photo. It was not just a shot of a dog with a guy in the 167 00:07:22.603 --> 00:07:24.193 background, it was suddenly a story 168 00:07:24.193 --> 00:07:26.931 that was going to be heard a little bit more. 169 00:07:26.931 --> 00:07:28.931 And then from there also it appeared in the 170 00:07:28.931 --> 00:07:31.481 ABC Canberra Instagram pages, 171 00:07:31.481 --> 00:07:34.611 and got a little bit of social media interest 172 00:07:34.611 --> 00:07:37.811 around here in Canberra, which is wonderful. 173 00:07:37.811 --> 00:07:41.740 And Christine, she also organised for her team 174 00:07:41.740 --> 00:07:43.489 at the Mental Health Commission to do a virtual 175 00:07:43.489 --> 00:07:45.483 tour of the exhibition as well, 176 00:07:45.483 --> 00:07:48.618 which was really lovely for them to engage. 177 00:07:48.618 --> 00:07:51.970 And she was going to organise the handing over of 178 00:07:51.970 --> 00:07:54.470 the signatures, is that right? 179 00:07:56.753 --> 00:07:59.633 From what I knew, she said they wanted to touch base, 180 00:07:59.633 --> 00:08:02.782 so we arranged for Paul's details be given to her. 181 00:08:02.782 --> 00:08:04.371 I gave Paul a heads-up, 182 00:08:04.371 --> 00:08:07.208 so he was keen to discuss with the team. 183 00:08:07.208 --> 00:08:09.873 I think Christine was just looking for ways 184 00:08:09.873 --> 00:08:12.329 to see what she could do for Paul, 185 00:08:12.329 --> 00:08:14.451 whether that meant spreading a little bit 186 00:08:14.451 --> 00:08:17.899 more of his story, talking to people in government, 187 00:08:17.899 --> 00:08:20.630 or just understanding it to see whether the government had 188 00:08:20.630 --> 00:08:22.691 already taken care of some of the key things that he wanted 189 00:08:22.691 --> 00:08:24.830 to address through his petition. 190 00:08:24.830 --> 00:08:28.750 So where Christine took that with Paul, I've got no idea, 191 00:08:28.750 --> 00:08:31.428 but I'm sure their team would have engaged pretty 192 00:08:31.428 --> 00:08:33.001 closely with him. 193 00:08:33.001 --> 00:08:34.000 And I guess once again, 194 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:36.539 we've been a little derailed by COVID. 195 00:08:36.539 --> 00:08:40.206 (Glen laughs) Absolutely. 196 00:08:42.619 --> 00:08:44.557 I know you've been photographing for a long time, 197 00:08:44.557 --> 00:08:46.200 but it seems like you're starting to hit 198 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:47.848 your straps now with being in this prize, 199 00:08:47.848 --> 00:08:50.945 and I think you're working with the War Memorial as well. 200 00:08:50.945 --> 00:08:54.947 So what do you think that being part of NPPP 201 00:08:54.947 --> 00:08:59.947 and Living Memory will mean for your photographic career? 202 00:09:00.149 --> 00:09:02.976 So I've been lucky I've had 203 00:09:02.976 --> 00:09:05.776 the Napier Waller Art Prize at the War Memorial, 204 00:09:05.776 --> 00:09:08.119 I submitted something to that last year, 205 00:09:08.119 --> 00:09:10.839 and I've got a picture hanging there at the moment. 206 00:09:10.839 --> 00:09:13.309 And their prize got extended as well, 207 00:09:13.309 --> 00:09:15.595 while they're waiting for COVID. 208 00:09:15.595 --> 00:09:17.987 And I recently had another picture sent up 209 00:09:17.987 --> 00:09:21.073 to the Tweed Regional Gallery, 210 00:09:21.073 --> 00:09:23.856 and it went in the Olive Cotton Prize. 211 00:09:23.856 --> 00:09:26.325 So that was great to see a couple of other pictures. 212 00:09:26.325 --> 00:09:28.147 And it's really just been a bit of a flurry lately, 213 00:09:28.147 --> 00:09:29.947 but when I talk to people about 214 00:09:29.947 --> 00:09:34.025 where I've been lucky enough to have some pictures home, 215 00:09:34.025 --> 00:09:36.096 everybody is blown away when you say 216 00:09:36.096 --> 00:09:37.597 that, "I've got a picture hanging 217 00:09:37.597 --> 00:09:39.576 in the National Portrait Gallery." 218 00:09:39.576 --> 00:09:42.577 That above anything else seems to resonate with people, 219 00:09:42.577 --> 00:09:45.585 they all understand the significance, 220 00:09:45.585 --> 00:09:47.808 and so I think part of this prize. 221 00:09:47.808 --> 00:09:51.565 So really, really my new creative second half of my life, 222 00:09:51.565 --> 00:09:55.864 it's mind-blowing, like I said earlier on. 223 00:09:55.864 --> 00:09:57.176 I just can't believe it. 224 00:09:57.176 --> 00:10:00.259 So if I never get any more with this, 225 00:10:01.164 --> 00:10:04.939 I could still say that I'm in PPP finals. 226 00:10:04.939 --> 00:10:06.358 I've seen it. 227 00:10:06.358 --> 00:10:10.523 It's exciting, so I'm still buzzing about it. 228 00:10:10.523 --> 00:10:12.803 And it's been a while now, so that's good. 229 00:10:12.803 --> 00:10:15.193 It was lovely to meet you and see your enthusiasm. 230 00:10:15.193 --> 00:10:16.763 And it's one of my favourite parts, 231 00:10:16.763 --> 00:10:19.134 is getting to meet the people and then 232 00:10:19.134 --> 00:10:23.551 seeing them see your work hung in this gallery space. 233 00:10:24.393 --> 00:10:26.060 I mean, you tear up. 234 00:10:27.214 --> 00:10:28.273 But it's funny. 235 00:10:28.273 --> 00:10:30.683 There was a few finalists in the panel discussion 236 00:10:30.683 --> 00:10:33.283 on that day, and you could tell who they were. 237 00:10:33.283 --> 00:10:35.072 Because when we broke away from the panel discussion, 238 00:10:35.072 --> 00:10:36.686 and we went in the gallery, there were 239 00:10:36.686 --> 00:10:38.523 all those people taking selfies in front of the pictures 240 00:10:38.523 --> 00:10:41.414 hanging on the wall, and it meant so much to all of us. 241 00:10:41.414 --> 00:10:43.961 So it was kind of cool. 242 00:10:43.961 --> 00:10:46.402 And we missed out on the party so far this year, 243 00:10:46.402 --> 00:10:48.944 but hopefully we can have one in January 244 00:10:48.944 --> 00:10:52.275 because it's such a great source of inspiration 245 00:10:52.275 --> 00:10:55.483 and chatting to other photographers and networking as well. 246 00:10:55.483 --> 00:10:59.283 So fingers crossed, we get that to happen in January. 247 00:10:59.283 --> 00:11:01.094 But I guess one thing I was interested in, 248 00:11:01.094 --> 00:11:05.744 and I know you're a multiple disciplinary artist as well, 249 00:11:05.744 --> 00:11:09.243 but how has lockdowns and all the changes that 250 00:11:09.243 --> 00:11:11.862 are going on in the world at the moment affected your 251 00:11:11.862 --> 00:11:15.695 practise and the way you approach photography? 252 00:11:18.353 --> 00:11:21.163 I guess I've had to make do with less, 253 00:11:21.163 --> 00:11:22.545 if that makes sense. 254 00:11:22.545 --> 00:11:25.654 So I do a regular photo challenge on a weekly basis 255 00:11:25.654 --> 00:11:27.404 with an online group. 256 00:11:29.825 --> 00:11:33.443 And normally you'd have the flexibility to go out 257 00:11:33.443 --> 00:11:35.963 and photograph or do something in the community 258 00:11:35.963 --> 00:11:38.713 or further abroad to answer the briefs 259 00:11:38.713 --> 00:11:40.713 on those weekly challenges. 260 00:11:40.713 --> 00:11:43.662 All of a sudden lockdown means you really can't go out 261 00:11:43.662 --> 00:11:45.094 for those non-essential reasons. 262 00:11:45.094 --> 00:11:47.974 And so you're inventing things in your own garage 263 00:11:47.974 --> 00:11:49.083 or in your own studio, 264 00:11:49.083 --> 00:11:51.742 and you're having to come up with ideas of making great, 265 00:11:51.742 --> 00:11:55.694 well, hopefully creative photos in the same space 266 00:11:55.694 --> 00:11:58.142 you're living in day in, day out. 267 00:11:58.142 --> 00:12:00.953 And so finding little details and creativity 268 00:12:00.953 --> 00:12:03.473 in what you think is mundane and boring around you, 269 00:12:03.473 --> 00:12:04.923 has actually been really good, 270 00:12:04.923 --> 00:12:07.353 supercharged my creativity, I think. 271 00:12:07.353 --> 00:12:08.755 By being locked down, 272 00:12:08.755 --> 00:12:11.101 you don't have the flexibility to just wander around 273 00:12:11.101 --> 00:12:12.755 and then find the photo you want, 274 00:12:12.755 --> 00:12:14.235 you have to create it. 275 00:12:14.235 --> 00:12:16.443 So I think it's been pretty good for me. 276 00:12:16.443 --> 00:12:20.705 I think as well, I had a peek at your social media, 277 00:12:20.705 --> 00:12:23.643 but some of your focus seems to be on creating photos 278 00:12:23.643 --> 00:12:27.060 that bring joy to people in the lockdown. 279 00:12:32.283 --> 00:12:34.003 They always say you should shoot with purpose, 280 00:12:34.003 --> 00:12:36.053 and so sometimes it's something that's quite meaningful 281 00:12:36.053 --> 00:12:38.555 for the journalistic type photos, 282 00:12:38.555 --> 00:12:41.945 but other times it's just about making somebody laugh. 283 00:12:41.945 --> 00:12:43.723 And often I have to laugh at myself 284 00:12:43.723 --> 00:12:46.043 in order to make other people laugh. 285 00:12:46.043 --> 00:12:47.963 what you don't see on my social media are some of those 286 00:12:47.963 --> 00:12:49.570 really rapid shots. 287 00:12:49.570 --> 00:12:52.771 When I grew my first beard after retirement, 288 00:12:52.771 --> 00:12:53.794 (Tara laughs) 289 00:12:53.794 --> 00:12:55.079 because I couldn't grow beard in the army, 290 00:12:55.079 --> 00:12:56.892 I painted myself blue, my beard white, 291 00:12:56.892 --> 00:12:59.191 and I made the best Papa Smurf photo, 292 00:12:59.191 --> 00:13:00.362 (Tara laughs) 293 00:13:00.362 --> 00:13:01.794 but it doesn't play around that much. 294 00:13:01.794 --> 00:13:03.204 So there's a few of other shots like that 295 00:13:03.204 --> 00:13:05.732 that don't really capture the social media side. 296 00:13:05.732 --> 00:13:08.583 But it's all about, I think engaging with people, 297 00:13:08.583 --> 00:13:11.620 some people want a good laugh sometimes. 298 00:13:11.620 --> 00:13:13.130 I think it's really great. 299 00:13:13.130 --> 00:13:14.324 I guess it's interesting as well, 300 00:13:14.324 --> 00:13:17.812 I know you retired from the army and you're focusing 301 00:13:17.812 --> 00:13:20.923 on an arts career as a second career, 302 00:13:20.923 --> 00:13:22.674 and you seem to be building 303 00:13:22.674 --> 00:13:25.091 a network of veteran artists. 304 00:13:26.652 --> 00:13:28.652 I was wondering a little bit about that. 305 00:13:28.652 --> 00:13:33.364 That seems to be a bit of a passion of yours as well, 306 00:13:33.364 --> 00:13:34.564 that shared expression. 307 00:13:34.564 --> 00:13:36.623 Because a lot of veterans seem to turn to arts 308 00:13:36.623 --> 00:13:38.644 and photography. 309 00:13:38.644 --> 00:13:43.044 Absolutely, I think I was one of those army guys 310 00:13:43.044 --> 00:13:46.844 who thought that art didn't have a place in the military. 311 00:13:46.844 --> 00:13:49.556 There is a really good arts community in the military 312 00:13:49.556 --> 00:13:50.623 of ours. 313 00:13:50.623 --> 00:13:54.186 I know that's not the persona I wanted to be. 314 00:13:54.186 --> 00:13:57.106 And then when I got out, and in particular through 315 00:13:57.106 --> 00:14:00.226 the War Memorial and their connections with some 316 00:14:00.226 --> 00:14:01.375 of our photo artists, 317 00:14:01.375 --> 00:14:03.364 I realised that there was so many artists floating around 318 00:14:03.364 --> 00:14:07.124 army still serving that were expressing themselves, 319 00:14:07.124 --> 00:14:08.591 didn't feel stifled. 320 00:14:08.591 --> 00:14:11.412 And so I think I'd put those barriers on myself 321 00:14:11.412 --> 00:14:14.120 through my own biases within the army. 322 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:16.172 And now I've realised, in particular, 323 00:14:16.172 --> 00:14:19.231 here in Canberra, massive veterans, our community, 324 00:14:19.231 --> 00:14:22.532 some beautiful paintings coming out of some of our veterans, 325 00:14:22.532 --> 00:14:25.332 some of them still serving, some are now out, 326 00:14:25.332 --> 00:14:28.099 some of them have amazing stories to tell, 327 00:14:28.099 --> 00:14:31.202 in particular with relation to mental health issues. 328 00:14:31.202 --> 00:14:35.343 So it's great I guess now having a network, 329 00:14:35.343 --> 00:14:37.612 people I've never even met before, 330 00:14:37.612 --> 00:14:39.282 but realised we had so many commonalities. 331 00:14:39.282 --> 00:14:41.130 And you can see it, share the army story, 332 00:14:41.130 --> 00:14:43.524 that everybody's been through that army experience, 333 00:14:43.524 --> 00:14:46.514 so that's not as interesting as now sharing 334 00:14:46.514 --> 00:14:49.783 and having survived as artists in this time. 335 00:14:49.783 --> 00:14:51.866 So it's been interesting. 336 00:14:52.724 --> 00:14:54.343 And I'm one of the very lucky ones, 337 00:14:54.343 --> 00:14:55.644 and I'm not uncommon, 338 00:14:55.644 --> 00:14:57.913 but I got through army with no big injuries, 339 00:14:57.913 --> 00:15:01.496 no mental health issues, so I'm very lucky. 340 00:15:02.766 --> 00:15:05.166 But then you gave some of these artists who use their art 341 00:15:05.166 --> 00:15:08.508 to express themselves as part of their therapy, 342 00:15:08.508 --> 00:15:10.989 and as part of their release. 343 00:15:10.989 --> 00:15:12.540 Yeah, I know. 344 00:15:12.540 --> 00:15:15.169 Absolutely. And it's great to engage with them 345 00:15:15.169 --> 00:15:18.358 because they're doing their art for different reasons 346 00:15:18.358 --> 00:15:20.108 the way I did my art. 347 00:15:21.209 --> 00:15:22.158 Perfect. 348 00:15:22.158 --> 00:15:25.728 So one thing we do get asked a bit on social media, 349 00:15:25.728 --> 00:15:29.007 obviously with photographers, is equipment and 350 00:15:29.007 --> 00:15:30.801 technicalities. 351 00:15:30.801 --> 00:15:32.921 So did you want to tell us 352 00:15:32.921 --> 00:15:35.070 about your selected equipment, 353 00:15:35.070 --> 00:15:37.330 and the style of photography you prefer? 354 00:15:37.330 --> 00:15:38.979 Oh, I'd love a Canon sponsorship, 355 00:15:38.979 --> 00:15:39.812 if that's what you're after, Tara. 356 00:15:39.812 --> 00:15:42.620 (Tara laughs) We know some people. 357 00:15:42.620 --> 00:15:45.986 (Glen laughs) 358 00:15:45.986 --> 00:15:48.197 I've got old SLRs, 359 00:15:48.197 --> 00:15:51.666 I've still got my original SLR camera, 360 00:15:51.666 --> 00:15:55.997 the old film camera, with the original Canon lenses. 361 00:15:55.997 --> 00:15:59.414 And so I stayed in the whole Canon world. 362 00:16:00.266 --> 00:16:03.295 So I've got a couple of Canon DSLRs that I use. 363 00:16:03.295 --> 00:16:06.258 They were predominantly sports cameras, 364 00:16:06.258 --> 00:16:07.710 so high frame rates, 365 00:16:07.710 --> 00:16:09.500 but not great for the creative stuff. 366 00:16:09.500 --> 00:16:12.759 And so I don't have great gear, 367 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:15.708 and I've got a little bit of lighting, no great studio, 368 00:16:15.708 --> 00:16:17.019 a little bit of garage work, really, 369 00:16:17.019 --> 00:16:20.271 with some good black screens and green screens. 370 00:16:20.271 --> 00:16:23.104 So I don't have a lot of good kit, 371 00:16:23.979 --> 00:16:28.231 by photographer standards, but you make do. 372 00:16:28.231 --> 00:16:33.231 And it's surprising what you can do with old camera gear 373 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:36.648 and a little bit of creativity, and a decent light source, 374 00:16:36.648 --> 00:16:39.093 although my light source is not great today. 375 00:16:39.093 --> 00:16:41.146 Not up to Hector's standards. (Tara laughs) 376 00:16:41.146 --> 00:16:46.146 (Glen laughs) So Canon gear, but older Canon gear. 377 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:49.226 And I guess a photographer's eye 378 00:16:50.253 --> 00:16:52.090 is probably my best bit of kit. 379 00:16:52.090 --> 00:16:55.004 And what do you think is your style, 380 00:16:55.004 --> 00:16:58.272 your preferred style is portraiture or? 381 00:16:58.272 --> 00:17:01.741 So I've always said I'm not a portrait photographer. 382 00:17:01.741 --> 00:17:04.271 And then all of a sudden, in a period of 12 months, 383 00:17:04.271 --> 00:17:06.844 I've got three portraits hanging up in different places. 384 00:17:06.844 --> 00:17:07.692 (Tara laughs) 385 00:17:07.692 --> 00:17:09.460 And I still don't think I'm a portrait photographer, 386 00:17:09.460 --> 00:17:11.895 and I've often said I'm not a people person, 387 00:17:11.895 --> 00:17:13.751 I preferred animals. 388 00:17:13.751 --> 00:17:17.631 So I gravitated towards pet photography and race cars, 389 00:17:17.631 --> 00:17:19.623 or things that you didn't have to engage the humans 390 00:17:19.623 --> 00:17:20.540 so much in. 391 00:17:21.673 --> 00:17:23.743 But surprisingly, 392 00:17:23.743 --> 00:17:27.091 I'm becoming more of a portrait photographer. 393 00:17:27.091 --> 00:17:29.732 Although I don't consider myself a portrait photographer, 394 00:17:29.732 --> 00:17:30.953 if that makes sense. 395 00:17:30.953 --> 00:17:32.371 I thought there was the whole, 396 00:17:32.371 --> 00:17:33.905 I'll never work with children and animals. 397 00:17:33.905 --> 00:17:35.331 You're the opposite. 398 00:17:35.331 --> 00:17:37.433 You're like, work with the animals, not the peeps. 399 00:17:37.433 --> 00:17:38.563 Well, definitely. 400 00:17:38.563 --> 00:17:41.422 And you'll see no children on my social media at all, 401 00:17:41.422 --> 00:17:42.255 because I'm that way. 402 00:17:42.255 --> 00:17:43.382 (Tara laughs) 403 00:17:43.382 --> 00:17:45.133 But I do enjoy being around animals. 404 00:17:45.133 --> 00:17:48.171 And even when I took that photo of Paul Murcott, 405 00:17:48.171 --> 00:17:51.763 I found that by engaging through his animal, 406 00:17:51.763 --> 00:17:54.093 through RJ, his beautiful dog, 407 00:17:54.093 --> 00:17:55.841 it was easier for me to engage with him. 408 00:17:55.841 --> 00:17:57.356 So as a photographer, 409 00:17:57.356 --> 00:17:59.886 I am guilty of hiding behind my camera sometimes. 410 00:17:59.886 --> 00:18:01.436 And then as a pet lover, 411 00:18:01.436 --> 00:18:05.353 I'll use animals to engage with another person. 412 00:18:07.746 --> 00:18:09.718 And so I guess I'm a little bit introverted like that, 413 00:18:09.718 --> 00:18:12.238 but it's my safe zone being around animals. 414 00:18:12.238 --> 00:18:16.488 And so recently I was involved in Pets in The Park. 415 00:18:17.358 --> 00:18:19.366 It's a great charity here in Canberra 416 00:18:19.366 --> 00:18:22.156 and a few other capital cities 417 00:18:22.156 --> 00:18:25.849 where vets take care of the animals or homeless people. 418 00:18:25.849 --> 00:18:27.536 And so I would go to Pets in The Park 419 00:18:27.536 --> 00:18:29.116 and take photos of the pets, 420 00:18:29.116 --> 00:18:31.438 but then bring hard copies of the pet photos 421 00:18:31.438 --> 00:18:32.940 to the homeless people when they come back 422 00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:34.386 from the monthly clinics. 423 00:18:34.386 --> 00:18:37.915 But engaging with that person through their animal 424 00:18:37.915 --> 00:18:40.580 and then talking to them was the best way I found 425 00:18:40.580 --> 00:18:43.747 to get through my issue around people. 426 00:18:44.729 --> 00:18:49.646 And probably for the person you're photographing as well. 427 00:18:52.508 --> 00:18:54.655 A lot of people, if my dog doesn't like you, 428 00:18:54.655 --> 00:18:56.082 there's that animal instinct. 429 00:18:56.082 --> 00:18:57.763 Absolutely. 430 00:18:57.763 --> 00:18:58.605 I'm touched I haven't found an animal 431 00:18:58.605 --> 00:18:59.438 that doesn't like me yet. 432 00:18:59.438 --> 00:19:03.540 (Tara laughs) So any secret tips or hints 433 00:19:03.540 --> 00:19:06.048 you could give to people that are aspiring photographers 434 00:19:06.048 --> 00:19:08.798 out there that want to one day hang in PPP, 435 00:19:08.798 --> 00:19:11.818 or make photography their career? 436 00:19:11.818 --> 00:19:14.740 One of the things I'm learning more and more lately 437 00:19:14.740 --> 00:19:16.407 is to park your ego. 438 00:19:17.826 --> 00:19:21.497 I've taken some nice photos lately that I've thought 439 00:19:21.497 --> 00:19:24.367 were worth more than what the judges thought 440 00:19:24.367 --> 00:19:26.237 they were worth. 441 00:19:26.237 --> 00:19:30.169 And then getting my head around that and seeing what did 442 00:19:30.169 --> 00:19:31.687 make the judges' eye, 443 00:19:31.687 --> 00:19:34.068 and why did that make the judges' eye 444 00:19:34.068 --> 00:19:36.107 is something that I've had to come to grips with and say, 445 00:19:36.107 --> 00:19:39.436 well, just because I like the photo doesn't mean 446 00:19:39.436 --> 00:19:40.756 it's good art. 447 00:19:40.756 --> 00:19:42.486 Art is so subjective. 448 00:19:42.486 --> 00:19:45.767 And so it's not a black and white, it's not binary. 449 00:19:45.767 --> 00:19:48.736 It doesn't matter if it's in focus or not 450 00:19:48.736 --> 00:19:50.676 if it doesn't tell the story that the judges 451 00:19:50.676 --> 00:19:51.988 are looking for. 452 00:19:51.988 --> 00:19:55.076 And so learning now that, okay, 453 00:19:55.076 --> 00:19:57.185 I've had a few setbacks with what I thought were 454 00:19:57.185 --> 00:19:59.457 good photos, but that shouldn't stop me 455 00:19:59.457 --> 00:20:01.767 from continuing to do photos, 456 00:20:01.767 --> 00:20:04.257 and continue to submit them and put myself out there. 457 00:20:04.257 --> 00:20:06.228 It's putting yourself out there, parking the ego, 458 00:20:06.228 --> 00:20:08.036 I think is a really important part 459 00:20:08.036 --> 00:20:11.237 to growing as a photographer. 460 00:20:11.237 --> 00:20:14.047 So my advice is park the ego, get out there, take photos, 461 00:20:14.047 --> 00:20:18.526 share the photos, they deserve to be shared, I think, 462 00:20:18.526 --> 00:20:20.607 and see what comes with it. 463 00:20:20.607 --> 00:20:22.536 Awesome. Good advice. 464 00:20:22.536 --> 00:20:25.719 So is there any photographers or artists 465 00:20:25.719 --> 00:20:29.052 that inspire you or that you look up to? 466 00:20:30.247 --> 00:20:31.885 There is a veteran artist, 467 00:20:31.885 --> 00:20:34.057 he's a painter who I had met 468 00:20:34.057 --> 00:20:36.623 through the Napier Waller Award, 469 00:20:36.623 --> 00:20:38.838 a fellow by the name of Mike Armstrong. 470 00:20:38.838 --> 00:20:41.207 So he's a current serving chap, 471 00:20:41.207 --> 00:20:44.428 quite open about his struggle with PTSD, 472 00:20:44.428 --> 00:20:46.876 but he's a brilliant painter. 473 00:20:46.876 --> 00:20:50.887 And he was an artist before he joined the army, 474 00:20:50.887 --> 00:20:53.105 and he's carried it up all the way through. 475 00:20:53.105 --> 00:20:58.046 So listening and learning from Mike Armstrong has helped me 476 00:20:58.046 --> 00:21:00.108 get over some of my own biases 477 00:21:00.108 --> 00:21:02.127 about what's art and what's not art, 478 00:21:02.127 --> 00:21:06.127 and why do people put brush to canvas sometimes? 479 00:21:07.384 --> 00:21:09.967 When even though you might think that looks like shit. 480 00:21:09.967 --> 00:21:12.809 it wasn't about what I perceive of that image, 481 00:21:12.809 --> 00:21:16.257 it's what that person felt about putting that image down. 482 00:21:16.257 --> 00:21:19.916 And so parking my ego and seeing them 483 00:21:19.916 --> 00:21:21.405 has been something that Mike Armstrong 484 00:21:21.405 --> 00:21:23.534 has helped mentor me through. 485 00:21:23.534 --> 00:21:26.199 So you look up Mike Armstrong, he's on social media. 486 00:21:26.199 --> 00:21:27.655 Shout out to Mike. 487 00:21:27.655 --> 00:21:30.108 Big shout out to Mike, he's a brilliant artist, 488 00:21:30.108 --> 00:21:33.519 painter, photographer, and sculptor. 489 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:34.352 Wow. 490 00:21:34.352 --> 00:21:37.447 He does all the disciplines, and he's so good at it. 491 00:21:37.447 --> 00:21:39.675 Well, you do water colour as well, right? 492 00:21:39.675 --> 00:21:42.287 I do. I've been guilty a little bit more recently 493 00:21:42.287 --> 00:21:45.737 of doing lots of pet watercolours. 494 00:21:45.737 --> 00:21:48.325 I'm sticking to the dog theme sometimes, 495 00:21:48.325 --> 00:21:51.754 but I'm just trying to learn different mediums 496 00:21:51.754 --> 00:21:54.055 to exercise different parts of the brain, 497 00:21:54.055 --> 00:21:55.553 and see light differently. 498 00:21:55.553 --> 00:21:58.407 I did some art classes with a lady by the name of 499 00:21:58.407 --> 00:22:01.719 Valentyna Crane, she's a Canberra lady, 500 00:22:01.719 --> 00:22:04.846 but from a Russian background. 501 00:22:04.846 --> 00:22:07.097 She's a brilliant Canberra artist, 502 00:22:07.097 --> 00:22:09.399 paints beautiful scenaries of Canberra. 503 00:22:09.399 --> 00:22:10.577 And she was running art classes 504 00:22:10.577 --> 00:22:13.005 at the Humble House Gallery out of Fyshwick, 505 00:22:13.005 --> 00:22:15.468 and she taught me to look at light 506 00:22:15.468 --> 00:22:16.447 in a different way. 507 00:22:16.447 --> 00:22:19.017 So photographers look at light 508 00:22:19.017 --> 00:22:21.396 and sketches, like her would look at shadows. 509 00:22:21.396 --> 00:22:24.068 She's all about adding shadow to an image to create 510 00:22:24.068 --> 00:22:26.716 the depth, whereas I was always about adding extra lights, 511 00:22:26.716 --> 00:22:28.836 you sought some dark and add light to it. 512 00:22:28.836 --> 00:22:32.287 And so seeing something in totally reverse 513 00:22:32.287 --> 00:22:35.697 to the way I do things as photographer 514 00:22:35.697 --> 00:22:38.885 has helped me look more for shadow rather than light. 515 00:22:38.885 --> 00:22:39.817 Interesting. 516 00:22:39.817 --> 00:22:43.628 And so I think that's going to hopefully pay up. 517 00:22:43.628 --> 00:22:45.217 A few years ago here at the Portrait Gallery, 518 00:22:45.217 --> 00:22:48.193 we did have a show called Popular Pets. 519 00:22:48.193 --> 00:22:50.748 That was all portraits of pets. 520 00:22:50.748 --> 00:22:53.348 So you can go online and have a look at it on our website, 521 00:22:53.348 --> 00:22:54.797 it's pretty cool. 522 00:22:54.797 --> 00:22:57.367 All right, absolutely. 523 00:22:57.367 --> 00:22:59.735 The whole pets as people. 524 00:22:59.735 --> 00:23:02.846 Well, some of my pet shots, they're known as underbellies 525 00:23:02.846 --> 00:23:04.956 where I take a photo of a dog or a cat 526 00:23:04.956 --> 00:23:07.225 from underneath a sheet of glass. 527 00:23:07.225 --> 00:23:10.420 And so it's totally a belly oriented look 528 00:23:10.420 --> 00:23:12.367 with a dog looking down from the glass. 529 00:23:12.367 --> 00:23:13.508 It's quite unusual. 530 00:23:13.508 --> 00:23:15.956 So underbelly photos, some people love it, 531 00:23:15.956 --> 00:23:17.479 and some people think it's a little bit weird. 532 00:23:17.479 --> 00:23:20.279 (Tara Laughs) All right. 533 00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:24.196 Can you remember the first photo you ever took? 534 00:23:26.308 --> 00:23:27.904 I can, actually. 535 00:23:27.904 --> 00:23:31.321 So I bought a camera before Expo in 1988, 536 00:23:32.765 --> 00:23:36.335 when they had it at South Bank in Brisbane. 537 00:23:36.335 --> 00:23:38.918 before your time, though, Tara. 538 00:23:40.096 --> 00:23:41.999 Are you surprised? (Tara laughs) 539 00:23:41.999 --> 00:23:43.748 (Glen laughs) It was one of those school trips. 540 00:23:43.748 --> 00:23:45.876 I was in school, but the school trip 541 00:23:45.876 --> 00:23:48.754 from where I grew up in the Coffs Harbour area, 542 00:23:48.754 --> 00:23:51.927 did a couple of day trip up to Expo 88, 543 00:23:51.927 --> 00:23:53.017 and I bought a camera, 544 00:23:53.017 --> 00:23:55.225 and it was my first time ever photographing. 545 00:23:55.225 --> 00:23:57.017 It was all those foreign pavilions, 546 00:23:57.017 --> 00:23:58.428 and the Japanese pavilions, 547 00:23:58.428 --> 00:24:00.486 and just the scenery along South Bank 548 00:24:00.486 --> 00:24:03.567 when it was a fresh brand new expo site. 549 00:24:03.567 --> 00:24:06.737 So my first ever photos were really of 550 00:24:06.737 --> 00:24:08.668 that when I was still in school. 551 00:24:08.668 --> 00:24:10.276 That's awesome. 552 00:24:10.276 --> 00:24:13.026 The little Kodak 35 mil camera. 553 00:24:14.207 --> 00:24:15.828 And what about dream subjects? 554 00:24:15.828 --> 00:24:18.895 If you could photograph anyone in the world past, 555 00:24:18.895 --> 00:24:20.228 present, future, 556 00:24:21.127 --> 00:24:24.608 who do you think you'd want to get in front of your camera? 557 00:24:24.608 --> 00:24:28.575 I follow Peter Souza, who is the White House photographer. 558 00:24:28.575 --> 00:24:31.257 And in particular, he took some amazing photos 559 00:24:31.257 --> 00:24:35.247 of Barack Obama during his White House years. 560 00:24:35.247 --> 00:24:39.414 And I've always wanted to spend time with somebody 561 00:24:40.567 --> 00:24:43.748 who is a world leader or something like that, 562 00:24:43.748 --> 00:24:45.765 and just follow their daily routine, 563 00:24:45.765 --> 00:24:49.267 and take those candid snaps of things 564 00:24:49.267 --> 00:24:50.856 that were going on in there, 565 00:24:50.856 --> 00:24:52.916 what would have been their daily routine, 566 00:24:52.916 --> 00:24:56.162 but would have been world changing events. 567 00:24:56.162 --> 00:24:58.562 And people easily recognise that person and think, 568 00:24:58.562 --> 00:25:00.493 "Okay, well, that's an amazing shot." 569 00:25:00.493 --> 00:25:02.910 So somebody like a president, 570 00:25:04.344 --> 00:25:06.282 or a prime minister, or somebody 571 00:25:06.282 --> 00:25:09.544 who is so well known that you spend the day shooting 572 00:25:09.544 --> 00:25:12.662 all of those candid moments behind the scenes, 573 00:25:12.662 --> 00:25:15.064 not just the handshakes in front of the podium, 574 00:25:15.064 --> 00:25:17.312 that's the sort of thing I think I'd love to do. 575 00:25:17.312 --> 00:25:19.394 That sounds awesome. 576 00:25:19.394 --> 00:25:21.326 Do you have any shout outs 577 00:25:21.326 --> 00:25:22.493 or thank yous? 578 00:25:25.945 --> 00:25:27.395 Obviously to Paul. 579 00:25:27.395 --> 00:25:28.228 Absolutely. 580 00:25:28.228 --> 00:25:29.174 So Paul's been a champion. 581 00:25:29.174 --> 00:25:32.714 When I spoke to Paul and said, "Can I use your image?" 582 00:25:32.714 --> 00:25:34.893 And I had to do it all virtually to get consent. 583 00:25:34.893 --> 00:25:36.766 He was really supportive because it was about getting 584 00:25:36.766 --> 00:25:38.954 Shona Mai's story out as well. 585 00:25:38.954 --> 00:25:42.966 But really, I'd like to have a huge shout out to Tara, you, 586 00:25:42.966 --> 00:25:45.675 and the other team members. 587 00:25:45.675 --> 00:25:49.763 From the moment we contributed images and the feedback 588 00:25:49.763 --> 00:25:51.554 and the engagement we've had 589 00:25:51.554 --> 00:25:54.174 from everybody at Portrait Gallery, 590 00:25:54.174 --> 00:25:56.235 there's been such a positive experience. 591 00:25:56.235 --> 00:25:58.924 I just can't get over how professional, 592 00:25:58.924 --> 00:26:01.606 but how engaging everybody is. 593 00:26:01.606 --> 00:26:03.892 You can just tell everybody just loves their job, 594 00:26:03.892 --> 00:26:05.497 so big shout out to all of you. 595 00:26:05.497 --> 00:26:07.195 Thanks so much. I think that's it. 596 00:26:07.195 --> 00:26:09.187 We all really care about our enterprise as well, 597 00:26:09.187 --> 00:26:11.447 so I know with the other guys as well, 598 00:26:11.447 --> 00:26:12.654 it's one of our favourite parts, 599 00:26:12.654 --> 00:26:13.966 getting to meet the people, 600 00:26:13.966 --> 00:26:18.017 because you're building something together. 601 00:26:18.017 --> 00:26:21.238 And you would have seen people come through different 602 00:26:21.238 --> 00:26:22.697 exhibits a number of times. 603 00:26:22.697 --> 00:26:25.377 There's a lot of artists out there who are repeat offenders, 604 00:26:25.377 --> 00:26:27.046 they'll keep on popping up. 605 00:26:27.046 --> 00:26:30.026 And so I'm hoping I become a repeat offender, Tara, 606 00:26:30.026 --> 00:26:31.216 and you get to see me again. 607 00:26:31.216 --> 00:26:34.745 Yeah, maybe then you can show me this Papa Smurf photo. 608 00:26:34.745 --> 00:26:37.995 (laughs) Careful what you wish for, Tara. 609 00:26:37.995 --> 00:26:41.117 (Tara laughs) All right. So we're nearly finished. 610 00:26:41.117 --> 00:26:44.984 What about your parting words of wisdom? 611 00:26:44.984 --> 00:26:48.211 To finish up, any words of wisdom from you? 612 00:26:48.211 --> 00:26:49.544 Life is short, 613 00:26:50.560 --> 00:26:52.823 so don't stress the little things, 614 00:26:52.823 --> 00:26:54.401 get out and enjoy it. 615 00:26:54.401 --> 00:26:56.513 One of the things I've always done is try to make the most 616 00:26:56.513 --> 00:26:58.012 of every day. 617 00:26:58.012 --> 00:27:00.983 And it's not always easy to do, 618 00:27:00.983 --> 00:27:02.455 but every day could be your last. 619 00:27:02.455 --> 00:27:03.473 I know that sounds terrible, 620 00:27:03.473 --> 00:27:06.252 but if you're living as if it could be your last, 621 00:27:06.252 --> 00:27:08.772 you'll enjoy life so much more. 622 00:27:08.772 --> 00:27:10.924 It's about that positive outlook. 623 00:27:10.924 --> 00:27:13.601 I know I'm a positive person. 624 00:27:13.601 --> 00:27:15.255 It's not just me thinking I am, 625 00:27:15.255 --> 00:27:19.755 I am a positive person and I'm fortunate enough to see 626 00:27:20.804 --> 00:27:22.553 the positivity in other things 627 00:27:22.553 --> 00:27:24.513 and enjoy it as much as I can. 628 00:27:24.513 --> 00:27:28.346 So live everyday like it's your last, I think.