WEBVTT

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<v ->Hello everyone,</v>

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welcome to 15 Minutes of Frame,

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a cross-continental conversation,

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bringing together the National Portrait Galleries

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from around the world.

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In this series, we take you behind the scenes,

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we get you to meet some of our amazing staff,

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and we have a little bit of a delve into the issues

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and the inspiration and the things that make them tick.

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And what a conversation we have planned for you today.

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portrait photography,

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something that's just become actually integral to our lives.

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So it's very little surprise

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that portrait photography is integral

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to our National Portrait Gallery's collections as well.

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Our panel today will actually take you on a journey.

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They'll take you through to see the,

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to explore the transformative powers

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of portrait photography,

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not only for our cultural institutions,

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but for our audiences.

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And we'll also have a little look at the opportunities

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for portrait photography

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in embracing the diverse communities

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that surround our institutions.

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My name's Gill Raymond,

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I'll be the host of our conversation today.

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I work here at the National Portrait Gallery

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in Canberra, Australia.

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I'm broadcasting to you today from the lands,

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the beautiful lands of the Ngunnawal and the Ngambri peoples.

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And I'd like to pay my respect to their elders past,

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present and emerging.

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And I'd also like to extend that same respect,

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to the traditional custodians of any of the lands

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on which you're coming to us from today.

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As with all our online programs here

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at the National Portrait Gallery,

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we like to keep it a little bit casual,

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but we also love to keep them interactive.

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So throughout the course of the conversation,

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if you have any burning questions that come up

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that you'd love to ask our panel,

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please enter them into the chat function of the webinar,

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which you should be able to access

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along the bottom of your devices.

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Talk to me in there and I'll do my very best

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to pass as many of those onto our panel as we can.

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You might also like to set your settings to gallery view.

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We have three panelists today Zooming in

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from all over the world.

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So if you'd like to see all three on your screen at once,

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if you set it to gallery view,

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or if you swipe across on your mobile device,

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you'll then be able to see all three of us,

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all three panelists talking at the same time.

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If you'd also like to let us know in the chat

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where you're coming from,

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we love to welcome all our national and international guests

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to our programs.

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So feel free to test out that chat now

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and let us know where in the world you might be.

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So to get onto our wonderful discussion this evening,

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joining us from lockdown and mid-winter,

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what a double whammy in London,

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is a dear friend of ours, Magda Keaney,

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who is the Senior Curator of Photographs

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at the National Portrait Gallery in London.

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Magda actually started her journey

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with National Portrait Galleries

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here at the National Portrait Gallery in Canberra.

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So it is just so lovely to reconnect with her

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for this program.

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And beaming into us a little further North from Magda

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in snowy and rainy Edinburgh,

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is Louise Pearson who is the Curator of Photography

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at the National Galleries of Scotland,

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which includes their National Portrait Gallery.

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We had an introductory chat

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to plan this conversation a week ago,

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and Louise dropped the fact that a little while ago,

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the National Portrait Gallery in Scotland

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just happened to acquire 15,000 photographs in one go

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from a particular collector.

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So being one of the youngest portrait galleries on the block

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here in Canberra Australia,

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that sort of blew our a little minds a little bit.

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We have a very small collection,

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but a very exciting collection.

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And one that's growing quite rapidly.

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15,000 in one go was just a little bit too much

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for me to imagine however.

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So I hope that we hear some of that

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during the course of the conversation.

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And finally, we have our very own Penny Grist,

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whose non portrait related activities include,

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orthonological adventures.

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She actually enjoys stalking birds.

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So there's a fun fact for you.

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Completely non portrait related, of course,

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but she's the Curator of Exhibitions

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here at the National Portrait Gallery in Canberra.

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So welcome to our panelists.

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Welcome to you all.

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I hope you enjoy the conversation tonight

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and I'd like to throw over now to Penny

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to kick off the chat.

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<v ->Hello everyone.</v>

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Thank you so much for joining us.

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Thank you, Gill, and thank you to the team here,

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Robert and Hector behind the slides and the tech.

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And welcome Magda and Louise.

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It's so great to be talking with you.

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Let's just get straight into it.

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I mean, we have three different,

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really different portrait galleries

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with really different institutional histories

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and remits and context.

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So to kick us off,

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to follow on from what Gill was saying,

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the National Portrait Gallery in Canberra is the youngest

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of the three of us. (laughs)

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We've only been around since 1998.

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It's like Magda will remember very clearly,

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as she was part of the,

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one of the originals of the teams working here.

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And we've only had half our buildings since 2008.

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So we've got to know,

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let's just have our first slide,

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and look at the building of the National Portrait Gallery

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here just to give Magda a blast from the past.

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There we go.

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That's us under construction.

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So what I would like to ask both Magda and Louise,

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to start the conversation is

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what is the place of photographic portraiture

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in your institutional context?

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So give us a little bit of a overview of your institution

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and where photographic portraiture fits.

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And to begin that,

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we'll go to the next slide as well Robert.

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So for us here in Canberra,

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we were very much,

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our remit was to become a contemporary portrait gallery

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with contemporary developments.

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And so this is a portrait of Simone Young,

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the conductor by Bill Henson.

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So one of our foremost Australian contemporary artists

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and it was very much commissioned

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to make a statement about our emphasis

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on portrait photography as being one of the signals

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that we were a contemporary collection.

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So tell us about the context that you're both coming from.

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Why don't we start with,

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let's start with Louise.

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<v ->So can I share the picture</v>

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of the portrait gallery in Edinburgh?

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I just wanted to give you a bit of context

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about the portrait gallery in Edinburgh.

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It's actually the world's first purpose-built

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portrait gallery now open to the public in 1889.

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So it's got quite a few years

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on the portrait gallery in Canberra,

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and quite a lot of the building

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actually incorporates portraits into the design.

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So on the front of the building

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and on the freeze on our amazing, great hall.

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So we, you know,

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we go back to sort of the great and the good

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of Scotland back to the 15th century.

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So there's a pretty broad collection, but as I mentioned

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when we had our sort of introduction

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chat remit with photography, isn't just portraiture.

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Can I share the next slide please?

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So I just wanted to kinda put it out there

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that we collect portraiture and we very much contribute

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to the portrait collections that we're building

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up at the National Galleries of Scotland

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but we also have photographs of all subjects

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around the world and particularly its context in Scotland

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including these which show some

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of the earliest photographs ever made

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building the Scott Monument in Edinburgh.

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The next slide, please just to give you a bit

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of a taste of the kind

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of people that we have in the portrait gallery

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and to hopefully recognize this, Sir

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tennis playing duo Andy Murray.

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So traditionally the context has been to collect people.

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Who've made a significant contribution to life in Scotland

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but like the portrait galleries around the world

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we're starting to widen our remit considerably

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and look at people who live

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and work in Scotland in a more broad, normal context.

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So that's kind of where we're up to at the moment.

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Magda could you give a brief intro to the-

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<v ->So the National Portrait Gallery</v>

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in London was founded by an Act of Parliament in 1856.

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And then the first building

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which isn't the building that we're in now opened in 1859.

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And Robert, if it's okay to pop that first slide

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up just the text.

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So even though the National Portrait Gallery,

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in London was born almost at the same time

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as photography well photography

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in fact was born before the National Portrait Gallery.

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The collections really didn't include photography,

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until the 20th century, if you can believe that.

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And so essentially when the portrait gallery was founded,

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and for really most the rest of the 19th century

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it was painted portraits that were required.

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And you can see here, the slide, in fact

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there were various kind of rules that were laid down about

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you know, what kind of portraits should be acquired.

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And there was this 10 year rule that no portrait

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of any living person of any person still living

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or deceased less than 10 years shall be admitted, you know

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to the National Portrait Gallery,

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unless of course you were the Queen

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or at that time or the Queen's consort.

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And so if we just go to the next slide, even though

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at the time that the National Portrait Gallery was founded

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you had incredible photographers such

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as Julia Margaret Cameron, and you can see here a slide

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of her favorite suitor and niece, Julia Jackson,

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the mother of Virginia Wolf,

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and then two of her, you know, great men

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so to speak both taken in 1867 you know,

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when the portrait gallery was founded

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but these works, you know, some of the most important works

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in the collection weren't acquired until the 20th century.

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You know, "The portrait of Carlyle"

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was an early acquisition.

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Carlyle was one of the early trustees

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of the portrait gallery.

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So even though we, the portrait gallery in London

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was kind of born at the time of photography

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obviously the status of photography in the 19th century.

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And indeed for quite a bit of the 20th century

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has been contested.

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You know, what is photography?

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You know is photography

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a portrait photograph, can it convey more than a likeness?

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And there was this real idea at the portrait gallery

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in London that the paintings, you know

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to be shown to the public

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and to have this inspirational capacity should be more

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than just a likeness.

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And I guess some of the conversations

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around what photography was at that time, you know

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sort of came into play.

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And but you know, once we got to the 20th century

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things started to speed up a bit.

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And certainly I think the next sort of defining point

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you know, there were some acquisitions made

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in the early 20th century,

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but really by the sixties or late sixties

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and the appointment of Sir Roy Strong

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National Portrait Gallery Director

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photography really started to come into its own for us.

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And that was the first exhibition that, you know

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obviously exhibitions of photography

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at portrait galleries around the world are, you know

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you couldn't imagine our programs without them.

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They're so vital and they're so popular.

266
00:12:11.450 --> 00:12:14.510
You know, our first exhibition of portrait photography

267
00:12:14.510 --> 00:12:16.160
wasn't until 1968

268
00:12:16.160 --> 00:12:21.160
which was an exhibition of Cecil Beaton's photography,

269
00:12:21.430 --> 00:12:23.441
a fashion photographer too.

270
00:12:23.441 --> 00:12:28.441
And Sir Roy strong, you know, also that was the time,

271
00:12:29.820 --> 00:12:32.750
in the late sixties that the 10 year rule was abandoned.

272
00:12:32.750 --> 00:12:35.299
And although there had also been collecting

273
00:12:35.299 --> 00:12:38.157
there's a slide there Robert, which shows it's

274
00:12:38.157 --> 00:12:41.223
the National Photographic Register the NPR.

275
00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:47.440
So really in 19, there it is yeah, about 1917.

276
00:12:47.719 --> 00:12:52.440
I'm gonna say there was this program instigated

277
00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:55.860
called the national photographic register a record sorry.

278
00:12:55.860 --> 00:13:00.860
And as you can see, it's kinda a lot of older white guys

279
00:13:01.970 --> 00:13:05.470
and it was a program instigated

280
00:13:05.470 --> 00:13:08.258
with the National Portrait Gallery that ran really

281
00:13:08.258 --> 00:13:11.530
until the seventies and thousands of portraits

282
00:13:11.530 --> 00:13:13.810
in this vein were made sort

283
00:13:13.810 --> 00:13:16.640
of studio portraits beginning with Walter Stoneman

284
00:13:16.640 --> 00:13:18.621
that you see there on the left in 1942,

285
00:13:18.621 --> 00:13:23.621
then taken over by Walter Bird and continuing through

286
00:13:23.980 --> 00:13:25.320
to the seventies.

287
00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:27.624
But then, you know, after that,

288
00:13:27.624 --> 00:13:30.340
a photographic curator was appointed and

289
00:13:30.340 --> 00:13:33.050
the first photographic curator was a guy called Colin Ford.

290
00:13:33.050 --> 00:13:36.350
And then just sort of skipping to today,

291
00:13:36.350 --> 00:13:41.350
there is a slide which is there's Kate Moss

292
00:13:41.970 --> 00:13:43.663
taken by Corrine Day.

293
00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:47.940
We have, yeah, there we go.

294
00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:52.940
So you can see here three more contemporary commissions

295
00:13:53.790 --> 00:13:56.160
so you can see how the commissioning program

296
00:13:56.160 --> 00:13:57.870
has been developed.

297
00:13:57.870 --> 00:14:00.410
And I really wanted to highlight portraits

298
00:14:00.410 --> 00:14:03.065
of women taken by fabulous women taken by fabulous women.

299
00:14:03.065 --> 00:14:07.440
And these are some of my much love portraits

300
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:11.220
and you can see Bonnie Greer there by Maud Sulter,

301
00:14:11.220 --> 00:14:13.369
In fact, a Scottish photographer

302
00:14:13.369 --> 00:14:18.369
a commission that more undertook around writers

303
00:14:20.272 --> 00:14:23.930
Kate Moss commissioned by Corrine Day,

304
00:14:23.930 --> 00:14:26.517
and Rebecca Adlington the Olympic gold medal swimmer

305
00:14:26.517 --> 00:14:29.390
by Patina Boswell

306
00:14:29.390 --> 00:14:32.820
a fantastic British contemporary photographer.

307
00:14:32.820 --> 00:14:36.443
So yeah that's a bit of an overview.

308
00:14:37.284 --> 00:14:39.950
<v ->That's just fascinating Magda what a sweep</v>

309
00:14:39.950 --> 00:14:41.930
of history that takes us through

310
00:14:41.930 --> 00:14:43.600
in terms of your collecting.

311
00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:46.810
It's interesting, you'll bring Louise back in here too

312
00:14:46.810 --> 00:14:49.190
in terms of the contemporary collecting

313
00:14:49.190 --> 00:14:52.520
because with an institution that, you know

314
00:14:52.520 --> 00:14:54.788
that idea that portraits were embedded

315
00:14:54.788 --> 00:14:58.790
in the very fabric of your 19th century building

316
00:14:58.790 --> 00:15:02.870
and also this idea that your portraiture collection,

317
00:15:02.870 --> 00:15:06.680
your photography collection held within your remit,

318
00:15:06.680 --> 00:15:11.570
is much broader than just portraiture

319
00:15:11.570 --> 00:15:15.470
and includes all of that photographic context as well.

320
00:15:15.470 --> 00:15:16.630
So do you wanna talk a little bit

321
00:15:16.630 --> 00:15:19.650
about your contemporary collecting

322
00:15:19.650 --> 00:15:22.793
in that historical context of your institution?

323
00:15:23.710 --> 00:15:26.270
<v ->Yes so it's a slight sort of quirk of history</v>

324
00:15:26.270 --> 00:15:29.500
that the photograph collection held by National Galleries

325
00:15:29.500 --> 00:15:31.221
of Scotland actually based

326
00:15:31.221 --> 00:15:32.810
at the Portrait Gallery and it all built

327
00:15:32.810 --> 00:15:36.400
from the first major acquisition of photographs,

328
00:15:36.400 --> 00:15:38.750
which was Helen Adamson's remarkable collection

329
00:15:39.686 --> 00:15:41.930
of photographs mainly taken in Edinburgh

330
00:15:41.930 --> 00:15:43.930
and around that part of Scotland

331
00:15:45.734 --> 00:15:47.954
and though not exclusively it's predominantly portraits

332
00:15:47.954 --> 00:15:51.483
which is how it kind of ended up in their portrait gallery.

333
00:15:51.483 --> 00:15:55.270
And it kind of has grown from there, but you know

334
00:15:55.270 --> 00:15:57.990
with this wider context developing around it.

335
00:15:57.990 --> 00:16:00.400
So now our contribution to portraiture

336
00:16:00.400 --> 00:16:03.540
is very much how it would be another portrait galleries,

337
00:16:03.540 --> 00:16:06.197
you know we can make yeah we can see, you know

338
00:16:09.700 --> 00:16:11.880
it's an equal medium with the other

339
00:16:13.391 --> 00:16:15.110
and always trying to promote photography.

340
00:16:15.110 --> 00:16:17.320
'Cause as Magna says it's always really popular.

341
00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:18.570
People really love it.

342
00:16:18.570 --> 00:16:20.980
And we can't imagine the portrait gallery without it.

343
00:16:20.980 --> 00:16:22.650
And what we're trying to do at the moment is

344
00:16:22.650 --> 00:16:25.670
we have a dedicated photography gallery

345
00:16:25.670 --> 00:16:30.610
but we're also trying to integrate portrait photography

346
00:16:30.610 --> 00:16:32.600
more into the gallery's collection overall.

347
00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:34.390
So we have a kind of rotating display

348
00:16:34.390 --> 00:16:37.920
called the modern portrait which runs kind of

349
00:16:37.920 --> 00:16:40.640
over the 19th and 20th century.

350
00:16:40.640 --> 00:16:42.470
So we're trying to intersperse photographs

351
00:16:42.470 --> 00:16:44.070
and particularly new acquisitions

352
00:16:44.070 --> 00:16:46.350
and new commission into that.

353
00:16:46.350 --> 00:16:51.139
So yeah, it's an exciting time in photography.

354
00:16:51.139 --> 00:16:53.360
<v ->Its a very exciting time</v>

355
00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:56.180
and something that I noticed looking, you know

356
00:16:56.180 --> 00:16:59.971
looking back through our collections,

357
00:16:59.971 --> 00:17:01.773
there's been the in a way portrait photography

358
00:17:01.773 --> 00:17:04.580
has led the way for us in expanding our notion

359
00:17:04.580 --> 00:17:05.830
of portraiture

360
00:17:05.830 --> 00:17:09.618
and something that I sort of I really love about

361
00:17:09.618 --> 00:17:13.330
in in our collection is I suppose those quirks in it.

362
00:17:13.330 --> 00:17:16.683
So Robert, can you just bring up the David Moore slide?

363
00:17:18.650 --> 00:17:22.090
So this is we held an exhibition here in 2000,

364
00:17:22.090 --> 00:17:27.090
sort of the major Australian photographer, David Moore.

365
00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:29.770
And you can see both of these works reenact collection,

366
00:17:29.770 --> 00:17:32.460
but they're very much not what you would consider

367
00:17:32.460 --> 00:17:34.563
a traditional portrait.

368
00:17:35.800 --> 00:17:38.771
And I think that's been a really powerful aspect

369
00:17:38.771 --> 00:17:43.771
of the role of photography within a collection of this kind

370
00:17:45.710 --> 00:17:46.830
that it sort of expands

371
00:17:46.830 --> 00:17:50.510
that notion of portraiture into sense of identity.

372
00:17:50.510 --> 00:17:52.440
Is that something that you've noticed,

373
00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:53.743
in your collections?

374
00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:57.903
Magda do you wanna comment on that first?

375
00:17:59.300 --> 00:18:01.499
Yeah look, I think, you know,

376
00:18:01.499 --> 00:18:06.499
I raised the point that the sort of contested status

377
00:18:06.670 --> 00:18:10.420
of photography really for the National Portrait Gallery

378
00:18:10.420 --> 00:18:13.190
in London was a kind of very relevant issue.

379
00:18:13.190 --> 00:18:14.530
So what is photography?

380
00:18:14.530 --> 00:18:17.130
and also what is identity and what is a portrait?

381
00:18:17.130 --> 00:18:20.870
And so these are questions that really still underpin

382
00:18:20.870 --> 00:18:23.190
a lot of our thinking and research

383
00:18:23.190 --> 00:18:25.970
I would say across the three institutions

384
00:18:25.970 --> 00:18:28.450
and that those ideas have evolved, you know

385
00:18:28.450 --> 00:18:31.610
with critical thinking and artistic practice.

386
00:18:31.610 --> 00:18:35.160
You know, obviously in the 20th century,

387
00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:38.520
you know the first decades of the 20th century

388
00:18:38.520 --> 00:18:41.764
and the idea of abstraction and identity

389
00:18:41.764 --> 00:18:44.693
became so much more important within artistic practices.

390
00:18:44.693 --> 00:18:49.693
And so that those approaches to photography,

391
00:18:50.986 --> 00:18:53.817
and photographic portrait can be seen

392
00:18:53.817 --> 00:18:56.680
throughout the collection as they start happening.

393
00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:59.687
Because I think one of the really incredible things

394
00:18:59.687 --> 00:19:02.830
about getting to work with the collection in London

395
00:19:02.830 --> 00:19:07.390
is it such a important portrait collection

396
00:19:07.390 --> 00:19:09.900
but it's also a really important photographic collection.

397
00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:11.270
So that in many ways,

398
00:19:11.270 --> 00:19:14.660
the history of photography is kind of mapped out

399
00:19:14.660 --> 00:19:17.955
through our collection over time.

400
00:19:17.955 --> 00:19:21.298
There's just a slide there Robert,

401
00:19:21.298 --> 00:19:25.517
which is a group of, I think six images.

402
00:19:28.730 --> 00:19:33.250
There's Lucia Moholy there is Aline Milla image.

403
00:19:33.250 --> 00:19:34.950
So just to give you a sense

404
00:19:34.950 --> 00:19:37.640
of how that might look kind of this idea

405
00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:40.170
of a photographic history plotted

406
00:19:40.170 --> 00:19:43.120
through the history of the National Portrait Gallery

407
00:19:43.120 --> 00:19:44.472
collection.

408
00:19:44.472 --> 00:19:47.340
So just thinking about 20th century approaches,

409
00:19:47.340 --> 00:19:51.720
to photography and significant 20th century

410
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.930
practitioners and again I'm sticking with women,

411
00:19:54.930 --> 00:19:56.330
you know, you can see here

412
00:19:56.330 --> 00:19:59.470
you know, Lucia Moholy, Lee Miller, Dorothy Welding,

413
00:19:59.470 --> 00:20:02.390
Lisette Model, Berenice Abbott and Eve Arnold,

414
00:20:02.390 --> 00:20:06.810
you know all such incredibly important photographic

415
00:20:06.810 --> 00:20:09.003
practitioners of the 20th century.

416
00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:14.500
Also sort of tracking different approaches to portraiture.

417
00:20:14.500 --> 00:20:17.070
And Lucia Moholy for instance

418
00:20:17.070 --> 00:20:20.780
obviously such an important modernist photographer

419
00:20:20.780 --> 00:20:24.747
you know, and the way she has you know yeah.

420
00:20:24.747 --> 00:20:28.120
If you consider the idea of identity

421
00:20:28.120 --> 00:20:31.100
in that portrait of Marco Asquith

422
00:20:31.100 --> 00:20:35.372
a very well photographed society figure,

423
00:20:35.372 --> 00:20:38.610
photographed by many, many photographers

424
00:20:38.610 --> 00:20:40.330
during the 20th century, but you know

425
00:20:40.330 --> 00:20:42.040
her face is kind of in shadow.

426
00:20:42.040 --> 00:20:46.253
You know, it's a profile it's very, very reduced, you know

427
00:20:46.253 --> 00:20:49.599
it's very simple in the form

428
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:51.840
there isn't a lot of detail around

429
00:20:51.840 --> 00:20:54.491
yet it's a very beautiful and you know

430
00:20:54.491 --> 00:20:57.580
insightful kind of portrait

431
00:20:57.580 --> 00:20:59.810
or then looking just to the next image

432
00:20:59.810 --> 00:21:03.143
of the surrealist painter Eileen Agar,

433
00:21:03.143 --> 00:21:05.120
And this is again, one of my much loved images

434
00:21:05.120 --> 00:21:08.707
in the collection by Lee Miller, fabulously Miller

435
00:21:08.707 --> 00:21:09.790
you know, you can see Lee there it's like the shadow of her.

436
00:21:09.790 --> 00:21:11.109
So it was kind of a self portrait of Lee there too.

437
00:21:15.350 --> 00:21:19.520
But again, if you consider the idea of portraiture

438
00:21:19.520 --> 00:21:22.491
and likeness and identity, it's a silhouette.

439
00:21:22.491 --> 00:21:24.550
So it's very playful.

440
00:21:24.550 --> 00:21:29.550
So yeah I mean, you could do that from the,

441
00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:33.160
start of the history of photography

442
00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:34.830
right up to the contemporary period,

443
00:21:34.830 --> 00:21:36.517
I think, and you know

444
00:21:36.517 --> 00:21:39.080
that image of Kate Moss taken by Corinne Day.

445
00:21:39.080 --> 00:21:40.390
You know, if you think of I think

446
00:21:40.390 --> 00:21:42.290
what's one of the things I love about that,

447
00:21:42.290 --> 00:21:45.120
you know, is the idea that a portrait is meant to be

448
00:21:45.120 --> 00:21:47.610
a kind of definitive likeness of someone,

449
00:21:47.610 --> 00:21:51.690
you know but does one portrait or one photograph

450
00:21:51.690 --> 00:21:56.690
ever encapsulate, you know, someone even in that moment.

451
00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:58.060
And I loved the way that Corinne

452
00:21:58.060 --> 00:22:00.898
sort of played with the idea of multiplicity

453
00:22:00.898 --> 00:22:04.680
through presenting the gridded image of Kate Moss.

454
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:06.383
So yeah that's some thoughts,

455
00:22:09.690 --> 00:22:11.789
<v ->And we've got a question actually</v>

456
00:22:11.789 --> 00:22:14.010
following on from this from Michael,

457
00:22:14.010 --> 00:22:18.273
do our institutions define what we mean by portraiture?

458
00:22:19.430 --> 00:22:23.111
We do, and that's changing a little bit at the,

459
00:22:23.111 --> 00:22:25.840
at least for us at the portrait gallery

460
00:22:27.460 --> 00:22:30.940
in within our prize definitions

461
00:22:30.940 --> 00:22:32.880
for our National Photographic Portrait prize.

462
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.720
We've actually this year expanded

463
00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:37.430
the notion of portraiture

464
00:22:37.430 --> 00:22:40.240
to include expressions of identity

465
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:43.125
that may not be a picture of a person to

466
00:22:43.125 --> 00:22:43.958
so that diverse cultural representations

467
00:22:43.958 --> 00:22:46.860
or non Western or First Nations representations

468
00:22:51.860 --> 00:22:55.240
of peoples identity are included within

469
00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:56.570
the definition of portraiture.

470
00:22:56.570 --> 00:23:01.330
So is that do you offer a definition of portraiture,

471
00:23:01.330 --> 00:23:02.870
within your institutions

472
00:23:02.870 --> 00:23:04.523
or do you keep it broad?

473
00:23:09.130 --> 00:23:10.913
<v ->Louise do you wanna start?</v>

474
00:23:12.130 --> 00:23:13.830
<v ->Yeah I mean, I think you know</v>

475
00:23:13.830 --> 00:23:18.070
we too have started to look at more diverse interpretations,

476
00:23:18.070 --> 00:23:19.580
of what a portrait means recently.

477
00:23:19.580 --> 00:23:22.120
We've had an you know, a lot of video works

478
00:23:22.120 --> 00:23:26.320
enter the collection and sort of things that border

479
00:23:26.320 --> 00:23:28.870
between contemporary art and portraiture

480
00:23:28.870 --> 00:23:30.040
which is quite interesting,

481
00:23:30.040 --> 00:23:32.410
for us as an organization, because,

482
00:23:32.410 --> 00:23:34.240
you know we are part of the same organisation,

483
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:36.480
as the Scottish galleries of Modern Art.

484
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:38.480
So this is quite a lot of them working across

485
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:41.510
the different mediums and disciplines

486
00:23:41.510 --> 00:23:44.380
but certainly I think now when someone

487
00:23:45.469 --> 00:23:47.336
would consider a or we're considered a commission

488
00:23:47.336 --> 00:23:48.390
that we're thinking not just in terms

489
00:23:48.390 --> 00:23:50.540
of a painting or a photograph

490
00:23:50.540 --> 00:23:54.150
but what best captures that person, you know

491
00:23:54.150 --> 00:23:56.672
how they see themselves, how the artist feels

492
00:23:56.672 --> 00:23:59.620
like they can best show them to world.

493
00:23:59.620 --> 00:24:01.760
So I think increasingly we'll think a bit more,

494
00:24:01.760 --> 00:24:04.140
outside the box about what we mean by a portrait

495
00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:07.380
and I think that's become expected

496
00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:10.190
that it wouldn't just be a traditional painted portrait

497
00:24:10.190 --> 00:24:13.409
of a person that's entering a collection now.

498
00:24:13.409 --> 00:24:17.140
<v ->How about you Magda?</v>

499
00:24:17.140 --> 00:24:20.090
<v ->Yeah look, I think similarly,</v>

500
00:24:20.090 --> 00:24:22.870
I think in the slides that I just showed

501
00:24:22.870 --> 00:24:27.870
you can see how the aesthetic or conceptual questioning,

502
00:24:30.760 --> 00:24:33.908
or interrogation of what a portrait is

503
00:24:33.908 --> 00:24:37.890
and can be, unfolds through the collection

504
00:24:37.890 --> 00:24:39.170
in a way that isn't really

505
00:24:39.170 --> 00:24:43.460
about us as the portrait gallery setting those questions

506
00:24:43.460 --> 00:24:48.460
but about through our collecting that reflecting, you know

507
00:24:48.460 --> 00:24:52.031
critical ideas at the time or artistic movements.

508
00:24:52.031 --> 00:24:56.800
And I think in the contemporary period, you know

509
00:24:56.800 --> 00:24:59.170
portraiture is such a significant site,

510
00:24:59.170 --> 00:25:03.933
for interrogation of identity representation,

511
00:25:06.790 --> 00:25:07.623
you know privilege, missing sitters so that all

512
00:25:07.623 --> 00:25:11.783
of those ideas still, you know are really important.

513
00:25:18.320 --> 00:25:22.020
And at the same time, I think that yes, consciously

514
00:25:22.020 --> 00:25:27.020
too, working as a curator at a National Portrait Gallery

515
00:25:27.718 --> 00:25:29.100
you know, you are thinking about,

516
00:25:29.100 --> 00:25:32.702
you know what a portrait is and certainly,

517
00:25:32.702 --> 00:25:36.123
you know, the limits and boundaries and questions,

518
00:25:37.760 --> 00:25:38.990
you know, around that.

519
00:25:38.990 --> 00:25:40.023
Yeah yeah.

520
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:43.610
<v ->How about the national in all</v>

521
00:25:43.610 --> 00:25:45.690
about in all of our remit

522
00:25:45.690 --> 00:25:48.330
and the role of the I suppose, being

523
00:25:48.330 --> 00:25:51.290
that idea of this sort of nations family album

524
00:25:52.370 --> 00:25:55.680
in terms of our collecting and in terms of how you know,

525
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:58.270
'cause most family albums consist

526
00:25:58.270 --> 00:26:01.180
of a lot of photographs so, is that Louise

527
00:26:01.180 --> 00:26:03.160
how do you use sort of see the

528
00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:05.240
the Scottish Portrait Gallery as

529
00:26:06.180 --> 00:26:08.878
in terms of the nation's family album and looking at

530
00:26:08.878 --> 00:26:09.823
yeah.

531
00:26:11.250 --> 00:26:12.083
<v ->Could you share the picture</v>

532
00:26:12.083 --> 00:26:16.600
from the McKinnon collection?

533
00:26:16.600 --> 00:26:18.530
So Gill mentioned earlier that we recently acquired,

534
00:26:18.530 --> 00:26:20.470
acquired 15,000 photographs

535
00:26:20.470 --> 00:26:22.940
which were from a collection that had been gathered

536
00:26:22.940 --> 00:26:25.960
by a private individual living in Aberdeen.

537
00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:28.680
And so this collection has been described

538
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:31.720
as one of the last remaining major collections

539
00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:33.200
of Scottish photography.

540
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:37.302
And it is very much about normal people living in Scotland.

541
00:26:37.302 --> 00:26:39.728
So it's kind of a way to address the gaps.

542
00:26:39.728 --> 00:26:42.900
So it doesn't really have any famous people in it.

543
00:26:42.900 --> 00:26:45.420
It doesn't really have any people who would traditionally

544
00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:47.920
have been a subject of a portrait gallery

545
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:50.230
but it does show people who were living in Scotland

546
00:26:50.230 --> 00:26:53.350
across the 19th and 20th centuries,

547
00:26:53.350 --> 00:26:55.830
including some of these really engaging images

548
00:26:55.830 --> 00:26:58.320
of young children and the people at work

549
00:26:58.320 --> 00:26:59.543
and people at play.

550
00:27:00.403 --> 00:27:02.340
So it feels like we're showing a bit

551
00:27:02.340 --> 00:27:03.700
of a broader representation

552
00:27:03.700 --> 00:27:06.130
of what was going on in Scotland at that time.

553
00:27:06.130 --> 00:27:08.050
And photography allows us to do that

554
00:27:08.050 --> 00:27:10.870
in a way that you know, paintings often wouldn't have been

555
00:27:10.870 --> 00:27:12.440
a lot of normal people wouldn't have

556
00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:13.550
had their painting made,

557
00:27:13.550 --> 00:27:16.180
but they may have been photographed.

558
00:27:16.180 --> 00:27:19.320
So that's something that we're really building on.

559
00:27:19.320 --> 00:27:22.070
Could you share the photo of the Last Resident

560
00:27:22.070 --> 00:27:23.673
of the Red Road Flats?

561
00:27:27.150 --> 00:27:29.100
So this is a recent acquisition

562
00:27:29.100 --> 00:27:31.700
which is part of a series of photographs

563
00:27:31.700 --> 00:27:34.430
made by Scottish photographer called Chris Leslie

564
00:27:34.430 --> 00:27:36.450
where he's been documenting the demolition

565
00:27:36.450 --> 00:27:40.750
of tower blocks in Glasgow and the regeneration of the city.

566
00:27:40.750 --> 00:27:42.370
And when he was making the photographs,

567
00:27:42.370 --> 00:27:45.560
he came across this man who had been an asylum seeker

568
00:27:45.560 --> 00:27:48.630
to Scotland and was actually the last person to be living

569
00:27:48.630 --> 00:27:50.543
in this condemned block of flats.

570
00:27:51.500 --> 00:27:55.690
So he took this, which I think really thoughtful portrait

571
00:27:55.690 --> 00:27:59.080
of this man and the freedom that the flats represented

572
00:27:59.080 --> 00:28:01.183
to him having escaped a war zone.

573
00:28:02.370 --> 00:28:03.970
But it's kind of this idea

574
00:28:03.970 --> 00:28:06.810
of showing people who are in Scotland, who makeup, Scotland

575
00:28:06.810 --> 00:28:11.270
who aren't famous, who aren't, you know, rich, or, you know

576
00:28:11.270 --> 00:28:13.420
have contributed in that way, but we're sort of moving

577
00:28:13.420 --> 00:28:15.960
towards a representation of people

578
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:17.083
that's a lot broader.

579
00:28:18.032 --> 00:28:21.389
And so that's something that we're really really keen to do.

580
00:28:21.389 --> 00:28:24.080
<v ->You've got a gorgeous family portrait</v>

581
00:28:24.080 --> 00:28:25.103
in amongst your slides too Louise, haven't you?

582
00:28:25.103 --> 00:28:26.936
Can you show that one?

583
00:28:30.090 --> 00:28:32.380
<v ->Yes so this is a series that was made</v>

584
00:28:32.380 --> 00:28:35.370
at the time that the Portrait Gallery was renovated

585
00:28:36.410 --> 00:28:39.930
and it was kind of a move towards you know

586
00:28:39.930 --> 00:28:41.742
trying to go out there

587
00:28:41.742 --> 00:28:44.557
and photograph communities in Scotland.

588
00:28:44.557 --> 00:28:46.750
And this is something that I've been building on recently

589
00:28:46.750 --> 00:28:49.900
with the grant, from the art fund to collect based

590
00:28:49.900 --> 00:28:51.700
around Scotland's upcoming census

591
00:28:51.700 --> 00:28:56.393
which has now been rescheduled to Spring 2022.

592
00:28:56.393 --> 00:28:59.930
So the idea is to use data to find people

593
00:28:59.930 --> 00:29:01.500
who are living in Scotland,

594
00:29:01.500 --> 00:29:05.033
who aren't represented in the Portrait Gallery Collection,

595
00:29:05.033 --> 00:29:07.530
with the objective, being that hopefully in the future

596
00:29:07.530 --> 00:29:09.700
anyone will be able to come into the gallery,

597
00:29:09.700 --> 00:29:13.179
and see themselves and feel connected to the collection.

598
00:29:13.179 --> 00:29:18.179
So I think that's very topical across portrait

599
00:29:18.994 --> 00:29:20.237
galleries around the world.

600
00:29:20.237 --> 00:29:22.359
And I know that's what a Magda's been working

601
00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:23.563
on with 'Inspiring people'.

602
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:26.763
<v ->Yeah thanks Louise.</v>

603
00:29:27.956 --> 00:29:28.789
You're right.

604
00:29:28.789 --> 00:29:32.140
And I think this idea you've just touched on you know

605
00:29:32.140 --> 00:29:35.770
if you can't see yourself represented in a museum

606
00:29:35.770 --> 00:29:37.870
or the National Portrait Gallery, you know

607
00:29:39.154 --> 00:29:43.310
are we really representing who or what you know

608
00:29:43.310 --> 00:29:46.680
it is to be, you know, a part of Australian culture,

609
00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:49.223
or British culture or you know, Scottish culture.

610
00:29:50.170 --> 00:29:54.410
So that's a really important question for us, Louise

611
00:29:54.410 --> 00:29:55.760
as you mentioned we're embarking

612
00:29:55.760 --> 00:29:59.090
upon a major redevelopment project

613
00:29:59.090 --> 00:30:01.743
at the moment called 'Inspiring people'.

614
00:30:01.743 --> 00:30:03.620
So our galleries are currently closed

615
00:30:03.620 --> 00:30:05.619
not only because of COVID,

616
00:30:05.619 --> 00:30:07.720
but for the rebuilding project.

617
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:10.360
And there is a slide that just shows you what

618
00:30:10.360 --> 00:30:13.903
the new building will look like when we reopen in 2023.

619
00:30:14.970 --> 00:30:18.621
But yeah, I think that that, you know, a key

620
00:30:18.621 --> 00:30:22.180
something that the gallery has been talking about

621
00:30:22.180 --> 00:30:25.020
quite a lot is the idea of the collection

622
00:30:25.020 --> 00:30:28.250
as the nation's family album, you know,

623
00:30:28.250 --> 00:30:29.700
but what does that mean yet?

624
00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:32.750
You know and how can we build,

625
00:30:32.750 --> 00:30:36.330
because 'Inspiring people', isn't only a building project

626
00:30:36.330 --> 00:30:39.580
but you can see it's an incredible building project

627
00:30:39.580 --> 00:30:40.640
so that we,

628
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:43.670
if you'd been to the Portrait Gallery in London,

629
00:30:43.670 --> 00:30:46.520
you'd know you normally come in the front doors

630
00:30:46.520 --> 00:30:48.480
off Charing Cross road which is a really,

631
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:52.210
really busy thoroughfare in Central London that,

632
00:30:52.210 --> 00:30:56.420
you know, in 1859 or, you know in the 19th century

633
00:30:56.420 --> 00:30:58.180
had a very different purpose

634
00:30:59.968 --> 00:31:00.950
and use than it does today,

635
00:31:00.950 --> 00:31:03.150
so that the Portrait Gallery had this kind of

636
00:31:03.150 --> 00:31:05.600
quaint little entrance that you came into

637
00:31:06.794 --> 00:31:09.510
but it was quite small and not really fit for purpose

638
00:31:09.510 --> 00:31:10.343
in some ways.

639
00:31:10.343 --> 00:31:12.700
So you can see that a big part of the redevelopment

640
00:31:12.700 --> 00:31:15.370
is this beautiful new entrance.

641
00:31:15.370 --> 00:31:18.550
So that, and that offers also a place for people to sit

642
00:31:18.550 --> 00:31:21.200
and gather and better access, you know,

643
00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:24.133
for wheelchair use and so forth.

644
00:31:25.199 --> 00:31:28.280
And then you'll also see that

645
00:31:28.280 --> 00:31:30.760
in the in the side next to on top,

646
00:31:30.760 --> 00:31:33.710
there's parts of the building that it was called

647
00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:34.780
the East wing.

648
00:31:34.780 --> 00:31:37.710
and they are currently offices

649
00:31:37.710 --> 00:31:39.870
but they're actually beautiful original galleries.

650
00:31:39.870 --> 00:31:42.090
So that they're being turned back into galleries

651
00:31:42.090 --> 00:31:44.149
for us, which is amazing.

652
00:31:44.149 --> 00:31:45.180
And I think it's just important to mention

653
00:31:45.180 --> 00:31:47.420
that a really important part of 'Inspiring people'

654
00:31:47.420 --> 00:31:49.910
is education and access and learning

655
00:31:49.910 --> 00:31:54.590
so that our capacity to do those programs

656
00:31:54.590 --> 00:31:56.070
is gonna be so enhanced

657
00:31:56.070 --> 00:32:00.640
because we're gonna have these fabulous new education

658
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:02.450
and learning studios.

659
00:32:02.450 --> 00:32:05.670
But I think, you know, this idea of the family album

660
00:32:05.670 --> 00:32:09.260
and this idea of representation is really important.

661
00:32:09.260 --> 00:32:11.626
So that for the first time,

662
00:32:11.626 --> 00:32:13.880
whilst the Portrait Gallery in London

663
00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:15.660
and also in Australia in Canberra,

664
00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:17.930
you know, for you know decades

665
00:32:17.930 --> 00:32:19.490
has been really come, all of us

666
00:32:19.490 --> 00:32:21.670
I think have been really committed as curators

667
00:32:21.670 --> 00:32:24.723
to thinking about representation and diversity.

668
00:32:25.730 --> 00:32:28.830
The way it's unfolded at the Portrait Gallery in London

669
00:32:28.830 --> 00:32:31.690
has never been sort of holistically looked at.

670
00:32:31.690 --> 00:32:34.120
So this opportunity with the building works

671
00:32:34.120 --> 00:32:36.770
we've taken everything out of the building

672
00:32:36.770 --> 00:32:39.250
and so we're going to and so that,

673
00:32:39.250 --> 00:32:42.460
that we're in the process now of this curatorial

674
00:32:42.460 --> 00:32:46.423
re-conceptualisation before we put everything back in,

675
00:32:47.290 --> 00:32:50.749
you know, and obviously in the history of,

676
00:32:50.749 --> 00:32:53.390
in British history you know,

677
00:32:53.390 --> 00:32:56.310
there are really tricky questions and narratives

678
00:32:56.310 --> 00:32:58.000
that we're trying to deal with.

679
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:03.000
And there are many, many sitters who are missing,

680
00:33:03.190 --> 00:33:06.600
who aren't represented but often, you know,

681
00:33:06.600 --> 00:33:09.060
the photographs collection does offer

682
00:33:09.060 --> 00:33:12.230
a transformative potential Louise as you mentioned,

683
00:33:12.230 --> 00:33:14.810
because even really from well perhaps

684
00:33:14.810 --> 00:33:16.670
the late 19th century I wouldn't say

685
00:33:16.670 --> 00:33:18.740
from the birth of photography, but you know

686
00:33:18.740 --> 00:33:21.060
by the time you've got, you know

687
00:33:21.060 --> 00:33:23.390
tin-types and so forth,

688
00:33:23.390 --> 00:33:25.840
you know photography does become more democratic

689
00:33:25.840 --> 00:33:28.000
so that a wider variety of people, you know

690
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:29.620
are photographed and represented.

691
00:33:29.620 --> 00:33:32.760
And if we could just show that slide of the tin-types

692
00:33:32.760 --> 00:33:36.690
it's quite a nice example.

693
00:33:36.690 --> 00:33:41.303
So we have started collecting more broadly than, you know

694
00:33:44.105 --> 00:33:47.230
well-known sitters at the Portrait Gallery.

695
00:33:47.230 --> 00:33:50.150
And this is just an example.

696
00:33:50.150 --> 00:33:52.110
So, so tin-types, you know,

697
00:33:52.110 --> 00:33:55.150
in the 1870s became quite a cheap

698
00:33:55.150 --> 00:33:58.000
and quick way to make portraits, daguerrotype portraits

699
00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:01.530
weren't they were slow and still quite expensive.

700
00:34:01.530 --> 00:34:04.414
And you can see here two tin-types of family groups

701
00:34:04.414 --> 00:34:06.200
taken at a beach.

702
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:09.550
So this became quite a prevalent kind

703
00:34:09.550 --> 00:34:13.590
of photographic business in the late 19th century.

704
00:34:13.590 --> 00:34:17.166
And you can see here a family group and an unknown man.

705
00:34:17.166 --> 00:34:20.910
So these are acquisitions we've made that are, you know

706
00:34:20.910 --> 00:34:23.830
starting to talk about class, for instance, you know

707
00:34:23.830 --> 00:34:27.060
to representations of people, you know, beyond,

708
00:34:27.060 --> 00:34:28.713
you know the great and the good,

709
00:34:30.590 --> 00:34:32.290
if it's okay to go to the slide of

710
00:34:33.553 --> 00:34:36.413
Sara Forbes Bonetta, which I think was the third slide.

711
00:34:38.871 --> 00:34:43.050
And obviously you know, throughout the 19th century,

712
00:34:43.050 --> 00:34:46.880
you know, the idea of cultural diversity and representation

713
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:50.510
of people of color is very thin on the ground, you know

714
00:34:50.510 --> 00:34:52.240
certainly in painted portraits

715
00:34:52.240 --> 00:34:55.280
and official representations, but you know

716
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:58.420
this is something that we're really committed to looking at.

717
00:34:58.420 --> 00:35:01.360
I mean, obviously in the contemporary collections, you know

718
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:04.800
it's a really active and important part of our commissioning

719
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:08.930
and acquisitions to make sure we're collecting as widely

720
00:35:08.930 --> 00:35:11.696
and diversely as possible, you know,

721
00:35:11.696 --> 00:35:13.596
representing women representing people

722
00:35:14.660 --> 00:35:16.161
of all different cultural backgrounds

723
00:35:16.161 --> 00:35:17.661
different abilities, you know,

724
00:35:18.520 --> 00:35:21.533
different, you know sexual identities and so forth.

725
00:35:22.370 --> 00:35:24.420
But you saw there Sara Forbes Bonetta,

726
00:35:24.420 --> 00:35:29.420
and that's a portrait of a significant 19th century,

727
00:35:29.772 --> 00:35:33.530
you know black woman that was collected

728
00:35:33.530 --> 00:35:36.713
early on and is found in the Camille Silvy albums.

729
00:35:38.038 --> 00:35:40.370
And here we have these are two early acquisitions

730
00:35:40.370 --> 00:35:45.370
actually Queen Victoria seen with Sheikh Chidda there

731
00:35:47.659 --> 00:35:52.659
who was an important advisor to Queen Victoria.

732
00:35:52.917 --> 00:35:56.440
But you you can sort of also see the complexity

733
00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:59.560
of the colonial narratives in these pictures.

734
00:35:59.560 --> 00:36:01.440
So you have representation,

735
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:05.580
but they're not straightforward and the complexity

736
00:36:05.580 --> 00:36:08.060
of them needs to be discussed and brought forward

737
00:36:08.060 --> 00:36:11.929
through our interpretation and Sara Forbes Bonetta's,

738
00:36:11.929 --> 00:36:15.260
you know, an example of of a young woman

739
00:36:15.260 --> 00:36:18.225
who was brought to Britain, you know,

740
00:36:18.225 --> 00:36:23.225
as part of that colonial sort of movement from Africa.

741
00:36:24.210 --> 00:36:26.880
And there's quite a few examples in the collections

742
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:29.580
of young people who were sort of from, you know

743
00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:34.410
in the colonial period bought from their countries

744
00:36:34.410 --> 00:36:38.620
to Britain, you know and how do we talk about those things,

745
00:36:38.620 --> 00:36:40.270
for instance, you know, how do we

746
00:36:43.631 --> 00:36:44.960
yeah encourage conversations and yeah

747
00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:47.653
around the complexity of those representations.

748
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:51.175
<v ->Just to follow on from that,</v>

749
00:36:51.175 --> 00:36:52.600
I was just thinking about how actually our building

750
00:36:52.600 --> 00:36:54.700
has got so many, you know

751
00:36:54.700 --> 00:36:58.440
now quite dated interpretations of what a portrait is.

752
00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:01.310
So we're kind of working with the context that,

753
00:37:01.310 --> 00:37:03.587
you know this historic portrait gallery

754
00:37:03.587 --> 00:37:06.000
and the restraints that that has upon us as well.

755
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.310
So I think I have always seen it that photography's

756
00:37:08.310 --> 00:37:11.650
really got that extra kind of ability and beam

757
00:37:11.650 --> 00:37:13.552
it to expand the collection

758
00:37:13.552 --> 00:37:14.890
of how we're collecting in the future,

759
00:37:14.890 --> 00:37:17.480
you know, building on past history.

760
00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:19.000
I think that is a particular strength

761
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:20.944
of photographic collections.

762
00:37:20.944 --> 00:37:22.540
And that's certainly something we're trying to do.

763
00:37:22.540 --> 00:37:23.463
And more and more.

764
00:37:25.740 --> 00:37:27.420
<v ->Yeah, it's interesting photography</v>

765
00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:31.180
almost, what I particularly love

766
00:37:31.180 --> 00:37:32.740
about photographic portraiture is

767
00:37:32.740 --> 00:37:35.070
that comes straight out of life,

768
00:37:35.070 --> 00:37:37.754
you know, they're working portraits

769
00:37:37.754 --> 00:37:39.040
they're personal portraits

770
00:37:39.040 --> 00:37:41.770
you know, there's people don't even necessarily think

771
00:37:41.770 --> 00:37:45.710
of these images as portraits, you know,

772
00:37:45.710 --> 00:37:47.670
they might be headshots for film

773
00:37:47.670 --> 00:37:50.723
or they might be just part of you know,

774
00:37:51.810 --> 00:37:53.680
your what's in the bottom drawer

775
00:37:53.680 --> 00:37:56.160
of your grandma's cupboard, you know,

776
00:37:57.741 --> 00:38:00.474
it's and then you sort of haul these things

777
00:38:00.474 --> 00:38:02.300
out of that context and bring them into

778
00:38:02.300 --> 00:38:05.620
our context and they become an inspiration.

779
00:38:05.620 --> 00:38:09.950
And it's that mixture between like photography

780
00:38:09.950 --> 00:38:11.430
as a democratic medium

781
00:38:12.968 --> 00:38:15.809
and our context in transforming those images

782
00:38:15.809 --> 00:38:20.809
into art and to you know stories that inspire

783
00:38:22.690 --> 00:38:25.160
that I think it's particularly profound

784
00:38:26.150 --> 00:38:30.530
it's and in terms of in terms about

785
00:38:30.530 --> 00:38:33.600
my particular experience of photographic portrait here,

786
00:38:33.600 --> 00:38:37.100
it's been very much defined our open call out

787
00:38:37.100 --> 00:38:40.533
to all photographic portrait artists,

788
00:38:42.080 --> 00:38:44.897
both emerging and professional

789
00:38:44.897 --> 00:38:46.190
through the National Photographic Portrait Prize

790
00:38:46.190 --> 00:38:49.433
which is about to go into its 14th year.

791
00:38:50.275 --> 00:38:52.060
And this is where we see some really, you know

792
00:38:52.060 --> 00:38:54.160
you can really track some extraordinary

793
00:38:54.160 --> 00:38:56.080
not only some extraordinary, I suppose,

794
00:38:56.080 --> 00:39:01.080
generous commitment to the Portrait Gallery's role

795
00:39:03.020 --> 00:39:05.020
in terms of being sort of we've talked about being

796
00:39:05.020 --> 00:39:06.750
the face of Australia,

797
00:39:06.750 --> 00:39:09.680
but we we can say some extraordinary artists

798
00:39:09.680 --> 00:39:12.371
just emerge in a way that we would never say

799
00:39:12.371 --> 00:39:17.371
so that's Lindy portrait of Lindy Lee

800
00:39:17.570 --> 00:39:19.160
by Robert Scott-Mitchell,

801
00:39:19.160 --> 00:39:21.330
that was our inaugural winner.

802
00:39:21.330 --> 00:39:23.000
And you just saw it was before

803
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:26.620
our People's Choice winner by Clarissa Dempsey

804
00:39:26.620 --> 00:39:31.620
who is an NT artist and that's her daughter Taylor

805
00:39:31.700 --> 00:39:35.600
you can absolutely see why that one was absolutely

806
00:39:35.600 --> 00:39:40.600
completely adorable and just keep going on to for a second.

807
00:39:42.540 --> 00:39:44.629
So they're just our winners

808
00:39:44.629 --> 00:39:46.479
and just flick through to the Matilda

809
00:39:47.340 --> 00:39:49.863
'cause it's interesting working at the tin-types.

810
00:39:51.194 --> 00:39:54.130
or what we've one of the, our works actually just acquired

811
00:39:54.130 --> 00:39:57.430
out of this most recent Photographic Portrait Prize

812
00:39:57.430 --> 00:39:59.020
is this extraordinary portrait

813
00:39:59.020 --> 00:40:02.810
of local Ngambri elder Dr. Matilda House

814
00:40:02.810 --> 00:40:07.750
by Brenda L Croft extraordinary First Nations artist here.

815
00:40:07.750 --> 00:40:10.880
And she's working in this series

816
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:13.793
around the

817
00:40:15.530 --> 00:40:17.080
you know, using this medium

818
00:40:17.080 --> 00:40:20.460
but then these really beautifully beautifully rendered

819
00:40:22.214 --> 00:40:25.697
extraordinarily iconic photographic portraits.

820
00:40:25.697 --> 00:40:29.510
And that's something that, you know, has emerged

821
00:40:29.510 --> 00:40:34.510
out of this process of this open call through the Prize.

822
00:40:35.007 --> 00:40:39.780
Is that do you both do open have done open call outs

823
00:40:39.780 --> 00:40:41.970
for photographic works

824
00:40:41.970 --> 00:40:44.573
from all around haven't you?

825
00:40:46.652 --> 00:40:49.350
<v ->Well, the Portrait Gallery yes.</v>

826
00:40:49.350 --> 00:40:52.120
Has the Taylor Wessing Portrait Prize.

827
00:40:52.120 --> 00:40:53.960
And it's a photographic portrait prize

828
00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:56.323
that has run over 20 years now.

829
00:40:57.290 --> 00:41:00.030
And I do have a couple of images,

830
00:41:00.030 --> 00:41:02.010
and I've been fortunate enough to work

831
00:41:02.010 --> 00:41:03.800
over that the last few years,

832
00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:04.633
but you can see here

833
00:41:04.633 --> 00:41:06.650
this is the Prize this year, which we've had to

834
00:41:06.650 --> 00:41:10.810
present digitally because of COVID of course.

835
00:41:10.810 --> 00:41:12.570
So this is you can see it online

836
00:41:12.570 --> 00:41:15.716
if you go to the Portrait Gallery's website, but you know

837
00:41:15.716 --> 00:41:17.580
that didn't deter the entrants.

838
00:41:17.580 --> 00:41:20.515
We had over 5,000 prints submitted

839
00:41:20.515 --> 00:41:23.130
of which there are 60 finalists,

840
00:41:23.130 --> 00:41:25.300
roughly that you see in the show,

841
00:41:25.300 --> 00:41:28.100
the top slide on the right is the winners.

842
00:41:28.100 --> 00:41:30.820
And I'm really thrilled again, I was so excited, you know

843
00:41:30.820 --> 00:41:33.070
the prize is judged anonymously,

844
00:41:33.070 --> 00:41:34.560
but the three winners this year

845
00:41:34.560 --> 00:41:36.700
are three incredible women photographers.

846
00:41:36.700 --> 00:41:38.553
And it's just fabulous.

847
00:41:40.118 --> 00:41:42.570
But I also, you know in context of this discussion

848
00:41:42.570 --> 00:41:44.560
you know, we're so thrilled that there were quite a lot

849
00:41:44.560 --> 00:41:47.570
of really strong Australian photographers

850
00:41:47.570 --> 00:41:50.360
who were entering portraits that were selected

851
00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:51.193
in the final.

852
00:41:51.193 --> 00:41:54.800
And you can see there in the slide below

853
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:57.640
a portrait of Tilman Ruff by Nikki Toole,

854
00:41:57.640 --> 00:41:59.047
that is also in the collection

855
00:41:59.047 --> 00:42:02.380
of the National Portrait Gallery in Canberra

856
00:42:02.380 --> 00:42:06.840
Matthew Thorn's amazing photographic collaborations,

857
00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:08.280
portraits of Derrick Lynch

858
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:10.340
an Indigenous man to the left of that.

859
00:42:10.340 --> 00:42:15.090
And Tobias Titz's photographic portraits there; a double hang

860
00:42:16.254 --> 00:42:19.230
of Tiwi, fabulous Tiwi, collaborative portraits

861
00:42:19.230 --> 00:42:20.820
where he takes a Polaroid.

862
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:22.630
And then the artists makes a marking

863
00:42:22.630 --> 00:42:26.050
on the other side of the sheet and the Polaroid sheet.

864
00:42:26.050 --> 00:42:28.860
There's also, Ingvar Keene some photographs

865
00:42:28.860 --> 00:42:32.210
from his Citizen series, which also have been shown

866
00:42:32.210 --> 00:42:34.360
in Australia that we are showing this year.

867
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:37.960
And something that we thought was really

868
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:42.760
important to represent was also some ideas around, you know

869
00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:45.950
environmental destruction and the bushfires.

870
00:42:45.950 --> 00:42:47.810
So there are actually portraits to

871
00:42:47.810 --> 00:42:50.590
in this year's Prize that you can't see here,

872
00:42:50.590 --> 00:42:53.030
but by a guy called Gideon Mendel

873
00:42:53.030 --> 00:42:54.690
who's a South African photographer

874
00:42:54.690 --> 00:42:57.490
who photographed the fires in Cobargo

875
00:42:57.490 --> 00:42:59.870
and in Australia, and you would have seen

876
00:42:59.870 --> 00:43:02.760
on the wall there, just the diversity of sitters

877
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:07.560
the different, you know, cultural backgrounds, you know

878
00:43:07.560 --> 00:43:10.550
that we are represented in representing the Prize.

879
00:43:10.550 --> 00:43:15.036
But I'm really thrilled to say, not only was it this year

880
00:43:15.036 --> 00:43:16.960
a diversity of sitters on the walls,

881
00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:19.300
but it was a diversity of photographers,

882
00:43:19.300 --> 00:43:21.460
you know, so we had, you know

883
00:43:22.715 --> 00:43:27.706
it wasn't, you know, a narrow view

884
00:43:27.706 --> 00:43:29.480
from the photographers either.

885
00:43:29.480 --> 00:43:32.030
So cultural background, women, you know

886
00:43:37.726 --> 00:43:41.153
<v ->How about in your area Louise?</v>

887
00:43:42.680 --> 00:43:45.610
<v ->So NGS doesn't have a specific photography</v>

888
00:43:45.610 --> 00:43:46.470
open call prize

889
00:43:46.470 --> 00:43:47.990
so that we have shown Taylor Wessing

890
00:43:47.990 --> 00:43:50.393
on a number of occasions, but if I could show

891
00:43:50.393 --> 00:43:52.453
the 'You are here' slide.

892
00:43:58.210 --> 00:44:01.890
This was an open call exhibition for anybody

893
00:44:01.890 --> 00:44:04.610
who wanted to reflect on the events of 2020

894
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:07.440
you know, how it affected their work, their life

895
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:09.670
how they felt about the future.

896
00:44:09.670 --> 00:44:11.240
So this was held in the contemporary gallery

897
00:44:11.240 --> 00:44:12.110
at the Portrait Gallery.

898
00:44:12.110 --> 00:44:14.210
It's currently closed because of lockdown

899
00:44:14.210 --> 00:44:16.610
but it's still continuing online.

900
00:44:16.610 --> 00:44:19.190
But we noticed that like a very high percentage,

901
00:44:19.190 --> 00:44:20.880
of the people responding to it

902
00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:24.020
used photography to express how they'd felt

903
00:44:24.020 --> 00:44:24.853
in the last year.

904
00:44:24.853 --> 00:44:27.060
And it wasn't restricted to that.

905
00:44:27.060 --> 00:44:31.270
We've had drawings, paintings, words, you know,

906
00:44:31.270 --> 00:44:33.160
it was as broad as it could be,

907
00:44:33.160 --> 00:44:34.700
but we did notice that photography

908
00:44:34.700 --> 00:44:37.450
certainly has been a medium that people have turned to,

909
00:44:38.700 --> 00:44:39.533
to reflect that.

910
00:44:39.533 --> 00:44:42.750
So we did the exhibition display has been

911
00:44:42.750 --> 00:44:44.570
changing every week to try and show

912
00:44:44.570 --> 00:44:47.073
as much of these responses as possible.

913
00:44:48.970 --> 00:44:52.280
So it's kind of a take on a photography prize,

914
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:54.130
but are reflective of the circumstances

915
00:44:54.130 --> 00:44:56.320
that we've all lived through.

916
00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:58.740
I think as Magda was saying like certainly

917
00:44:58.740 --> 00:45:01.070
the census project I'm currently working on one

918
00:45:01.070 --> 00:45:04.460
of the main objectives is to support emerging photographers

919
00:45:04.460 --> 00:45:06.550
from a wide range of backgrounds

920
00:45:06.550 --> 00:45:09.199
and we to particularly bringing more women

921
00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:10.032
into the collection and,

922
00:45:10.032 --> 00:45:13.220
you know, to be representative and sitter and practitioner,

923
00:45:13.220 --> 00:45:14.270
that's definitely a direction,

924
00:45:14.270 --> 00:45:15.670
I think that we're going in.

925
00:45:17.930 --> 00:45:20.614
<v ->We've got a very big question</v>

926
00:45:20.614 --> 00:45:24.800
but probably a way that we can answer it in a few minutes

927
00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:25.640
that we've got left

928
00:45:25.640 --> 00:45:27.700
or we could take the rest of time.

929
00:45:27.700 --> 00:45:30.010
I think to answer this one from Onisha,

930
00:45:30.010 --> 00:45:32.790
I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly.

931
00:45:32.790 --> 00:45:34.610
As curators what do we look for

932
00:45:34.610 --> 00:45:36.803
in a great photographic portrait?

933
00:45:37.670 --> 00:45:38.980
What a nice one to end on.

934
00:45:38.980 --> 00:45:41.540
Do you wanna start Louise?

935
00:45:41.540 --> 00:45:44.270
<v ->I think something that really pulls you</v>

936
00:45:44.270 --> 00:45:47.243
into it and wants you to find out the story behind it.

937
00:45:48.188 --> 00:45:49.600
I think that's connected to the aesthetic

938
00:45:49.600 --> 00:45:51.530
but I think it goes deeper than that.

939
00:45:51.530 --> 00:45:53.630
That's what would draw me to a photograph.

940
00:45:56.330 --> 00:45:57.873
<v ->Lovely how about you Magda?</v>

941
00:45:59.070 --> 00:46:00.510
<v ->Gosh, that's such a hard question.</v>

942
00:46:00.510 --> 00:46:04.570
I mean I don't have a definitive answer to it

943
00:46:04.570 --> 00:46:06.650
so there's lots of different things

944
00:46:06.650 --> 00:46:08.070
that can come together to

945
00:46:08.070 --> 00:46:10.913
make an incredible photographic portrait.

946
00:46:12.200 --> 00:46:15.730
I think, I mean Louise, you mentioned the word connection.

947
00:46:15.730 --> 00:46:19.620
I think some kind of connection

948
00:46:19.620 --> 00:46:22.730
to sit our connection between photographer

949
00:46:22.730 --> 00:46:25.590
and sitter and then us you know audience,

950
00:46:25.590 --> 00:46:30.590
but how that is achieved can be magical and mystical

951
00:46:31.050 --> 00:46:32.374
and surprising.

952
00:46:32.374 --> 00:46:33.207
(indistinct)

953
00:46:33.207 --> 00:46:34.040
<v ->Isn't it?</v>

954
00:46:35.344 --> 00:46:36.177
Yeah.

955
00:46:36.177 --> 00:46:38.210
<v ->Oh, you both took the words right out of my mouth.</v>

956
00:46:38.210 --> 00:46:40.920
I think that's all that connectedness

957
00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:44.840
the presence that the sense of mystery

958
00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:48.253
and humanity in a portrait's is what I'm looking for.

959
00:46:48.253 --> 00:46:51.260
They're all very undefinable qualities.

960
00:46:51.260 --> 00:46:52.210
Aren't they?

961
00:46:52.210 --> 00:46:55.023
That you sort of feel in your gut and your heart.

962
00:46:57.888 --> 00:46:58.721
<v ->Yeah</v>

963
00:46:58.721 --> 00:46:59.554
<v ->Yeah.</v>

964
00:46:59.554 --> 00:47:00.450
<v ->Well, that's all we've got time for.</v>

965
00:47:00.450 --> 00:47:03.050
I'm afraid that's the end of our 15 Minutes of Frame

966
00:47:03.050 --> 00:47:05.210
time now extended 15 Minutes of Frame.

967
00:47:05.210 --> 00:47:09.200
And so I just, I'd like to thank you both.

968
00:47:09.200 --> 00:47:13.720
This has just been an absolute joy of a discussion

969
00:47:13.720 --> 00:47:18.320
so it's so great to join you across the world.

970
00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:20.453
So I'm gonna hand back to Gill.

971
00:47:22.730 --> 00:47:25.953
<v ->Thank you so much both of you for joining us today.</v>

972
00:47:25.953 --> 00:47:27.830
I can't thank you enough.

973
00:47:27.830 --> 00:47:30.040
I know it's been a really tough for you.

974
00:47:30.040 --> 00:47:33.670
So you know, we really, really thank you

975
00:47:33.670 --> 00:47:36.113
for taking the time out of your schedules.

976
00:47:37.308 --> 00:47:40.250
And I was saying to both of you earlier,

977
00:47:40.250 --> 00:47:42.750
you know Penny and I feel very fortunate

978
00:47:42.750 --> 00:47:45.340
that we in Australia are not going through

979
00:47:45.340 --> 00:47:47.730
the same lockdown experience that they are.

980
00:47:47.730 --> 00:47:50.913
I think I would have been very reluctant to get

981
00:47:50.913 --> 00:47:53.540
out of my pajamas and come into work early in the morning

982
00:47:53.540 --> 00:47:56.940
to the National Portrait Gallery of Australia

983
00:47:56.940 --> 00:47:58.688
So thank you so much.

984
00:47:58.688 --> 00:47:59.780
And thank you to everybody for joining us

985
00:47:59.780 --> 00:48:01.470
from all over the world.

986
00:48:01.470 --> 00:48:03.520
Thank you for popping your questions

987
00:48:03.520 --> 00:48:05.920
into the chat and for joining in the conversation.

988
00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:08.710
Thank you for supporting the arts at this time.

989
00:48:08.710 --> 00:48:10.750
And please jump on our website

990
00:48:10.750 --> 00:48:12.710
and have a look at the other programs

991
00:48:12.710 --> 00:48:15.230
that we've got coming up next month.

992
00:48:15.230 --> 00:48:17.640
We've got the National Portrait Gallery of Scotland

993
00:48:17.640 --> 00:48:20.360
joining us again for another conversation.

994
00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:21.330
And we'll also be talking

995
00:48:21.330 --> 00:48:23.500
to the National Portrait Gallery in New Zealand.

996
00:48:23.500 --> 00:48:26.850
So please we'll have that up on our site very shortly

997
00:48:26.850 --> 00:48:28.770
for you to jump on and book in.

998
00:48:28.770 --> 00:48:30.470
And we're also gonna have a rolling series

999
00:48:30.470 --> 00:48:32.170
of our programs going from here on.

1000
00:48:32.170 --> 00:48:34.630
So there's always something to find on our website

1001
00:48:34.630 --> 00:48:38.506
to look in for, stay safe, take care.

1002
00:48:38.506 --> 00:48:39.700
And we really hope that you join us again

1003
00:48:39.700 --> 00:48:41.040
in the near future.

1004
00:48:41.040 --> 00:48:42.073
Thank you everybody.