WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en

00:00:09.090 --> 00:00:15.460
I I think Brook and I chatted away for
about two years before he executed the

00:00:15.460 --> 00:00:24.520
work and it you know he had an idea much
earlier on to do something like this for

00:00:24.520 --> 00:00:31.210
another show and it didn't eventuate
because the ideas in the show grew like

00:00:31.210 --> 00:00:36.160
topsy and so this didn't really fit in
at the time. So it was the natural

00:00:36.160 --> 00:00:40.480
progression but unfortunately at the
time I didn't you know have the scope

00:00:40.480 --> 00:00:44.920
and it was much bigger project and so
Marcie went on the back burner. But

00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:48.579
actually it was meant to be because then
Chris Chapman contacted me a few years

00:00:48.579 --> 00:00:54.609
ago and said 'Brook, would really you know like to commission you to do a portrait

00:00:54.609 --> 00:00:59.309
of Marcia Langton and how you know do
you feel about that?' And it was perfect

00:00:59.309 --> 00:01:03.519
for the National Portrait Gallery
because she is such an important figure.

00:01:03.519 --> 00:01:12.280
He had the idea of using some ideas from
Hindu mythology and expressing them in

00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:19.750
an artistic way to depict you know
aspects of the life of an Aboriginal

00:01:19.750 --> 00:01:25.360
person as you know a dynamic flowing
series of events rather than you know

00:01:25.360 --> 00:01:31.180
the boring old static idea of the
Aborigine in Australian mythology yeah?

00:01:31.180 --> 00:01:35.159
You know if you
don't understand the different you know

00:01:35.159 --> 00:01:39.100
disciplines of anthropology you know
some people think, 'oh, anthropology is

00:01:39.100 --> 00:01:43.869
just only about the bones and about
indigenous people etc' but there are you

00:01:43.869 --> 00:01:46.960
know quite a few indigenous
anthropologists and is very important so

00:01:46.960 --> 00:01:50.799
I wanted to show that but it was also
about balance so when there was a black

00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:55.829
skull and a white skull. In a lot of my
work I have binary opposites and these

00:01:55.829 --> 00:02:00.820
things that even popped up in Anthony
Mundine's hope and peace' so you had hope

00:02:00.820 --> 00:02:04.899
in one side and peace on the other. So
really the symbols that I kept in in

00:02:04.899 --> 00:02:08.890
Marcia's portrait was still very similar
to the Mundine so if you have them both

00:02:08.890 --> 00:02:12.850
up together and I do hope that they'll
be both shown together sometime soon you

00:02:12.850 --> 00:02:18.520
will see the absolute similarities. So he
was bringing to bear on basically you

00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:22.600
know pretty conventional Australian
mythology about

00:02:22.600 --> 00:02:29.530
Aboriginal people his wealth of
knowledge about Hindu society and

00:02:29.530 --> 00:02:38.080
history and religious mythology in a
very interesting way so that idea of the

00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:45.910
cycle of life and death and the dynamism
of you know being human he wanted to

00:02:45.910 --> 00:02:50.650
inject into a work of art and he wanted
me as the subject and so we started

00:02:50.650 --> 00:02:56.680
talking about what's important in my
life. The other symbolism in Marcia's

00:02:56.680 --> 00:03:00.580
portrait is the Wiradjuri pattern but it's a lot more like a river

00:03:00.580 --> 00:03:05.380
and so I really wanted that to flow like
energy so that's kind of like an energy

00:03:05.380 --> 00:03:10.780
force behind it and the fire is in her
right hand and so she's, well one of her hands

00:03:10.780 --> 00:03:14.560
because she has six hands and I'll get
to that in a minute and so it's about

00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:19.780
magic it's about being a magic person
and fire and the other one the other

00:03:19.780 --> 00:03:25.240
left hand is in the meditative pose and then the skulls and then the two hands up are

00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:29.860
holding the diamond which is a sun as
well. And of course he knew that I'd

00:03:29.860 --> 00:03:36.040
written a lot about a traditional
Aboriginal use of fire and traditions of

00:03:36.040 --> 00:03:43.470
fire management so he's fascinated with
that because fires are very important

00:03:43.470 --> 00:03:51.940
symbol in Hindu mythology as it is in
many religions. He knew that I had worked

00:03:51.940 --> 00:03:56.920
at the Argyle Diamond Mine and of course
you know in Buddhism you had the Diamond

00:03:56.920 --> 00:04:08.740
Sutra and the diamond represents the
multi-faceted effect of well let's say

00:04:08.740 --> 00:04:19.630
purity yeah of of peace yeah? So he like
he was bringing together elements from

00:04:19.630 --> 00:04:27.190
our from his world in my world. Then with
these elements they were really

00:04:27.190 --> 00:04:31.900
developed in the studio as well weren't
they the skulls? No, a lot of it

00:04:31.900 --> 00:04:35.919
came through the process I think originally there was we tried some lightning as well.

00:04:35.919 --> 00:04:39.810
Yes we had lightning too but that...
And at some point there was some text

00:04:39.810 --> 00:04:43.300
do I recall? Yes there was peace because originally there were going

00:04:43.300 --> 00:04:47.970
to be two diamonds there were going to be a peace diamond and the conflict diamond but

00:04:47.970 --> 00:04:53.050
scrapped that. Yeah so I guess 
there were things developed in the studio

00:04:53.050 --> 00:04:56.800
they didn't didn't make the final work
and so that's probably a you know Brook

00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:02.800
is a very dynamic artist and works you
know quite intuitively and in a

00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:07.660
practical way in a process way and so
you know that the portrait really

00:05:07.660 --> 00:05:13.720
evolved from the only studio session to
what you did on the computer. Mm, hmm. And so

00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:17.410
you know that the image of Marcia you
see just isn't a straight kind of a

00:05:17.410 --> 00:05:22.000
photographic portrait obviously
obviously not with all the different

00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:27.430
elements but even just if you
literally just take her portrait, her face

00:05:27.430 --> 00:05:32.500
you know I feel that there's some
softened lines and yeah and the hairs

00:05:32.500 --> 00:05:37.030
been exaggerated so it's kind of wavy
hair that kind of goes on and on the

00:05:37.030 --> 00:05:44.880
idea of Kali was you know came up first
of all did some black-and-white drawings

00:05:44.880 --> 00:05:51.430
and he showed me those and I could see
where he was headed with it and so we

00:05:51.430 --> 00:05:56.860
just kept talking and then eventually
this idea of Kali popped up and he

00:05:56.860 --> 00:06:01.720
started working with that and then I did
a sitting. So the process of the portrait

00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:09.159
was Marcia sitting for that photographic
shoot first and I had two opposing

00:06:09.159 --> 00:06:13.449
different meditative poses and then I
imported that as a digital file into the

00:06:13.449 --> 00:06:18.849
computer and I changed certain aspects
of it so it didn't look so much like a

00:06:18.849 --> 00:06:29.699
photographic portrait so it was almost
cartoon-esque and then I selected

00:06:29.699 --> 00:06:34.479
certain parts of the body with Trent. So
for example we had the body and then we

00:06:34.479 --> 00:06:39.310
have the arms and then we had the head
and we outputted those on to screen. Onto

00:06:39.310 --> 00:06:44.470
a screen print. Yes we had films
we have a film made from Brooks

00:06:44.470 --> 00:06:49.210
files so you can imagine there's an arm
there's there's a head there's you know

00:06:49.210 --> 00:06:53.919
a body so that all you know quite quite
separate from the start so in a way it

00:06:53.919 --> 00:07:01.500
was like making a collage in reverse. So Brooks very good at capturing

00:07:02.880 --> 00:07:08.830
something about the body he did that
also in his Kalar Midday series with his

00:07:08.830 --> 00:07:16.290
photographs of Tina and and other
characters in the trees in the night sky

00:07:16.290 --> 00:07:24.040
so i wrote about that in my my essays on
his work and so I was hoping that you

00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:28.030
know somehow he would be able to do that
with me actually has gone beyond that in

00:07:28.030 --> 00:07:34.060
this work and that's what I really love
about the work I heard people grumbling

00:07:34.060 --> 00:07:42.430
at the, at the opening night at the
opening day when they you know showed it

00:07:42.430 --> 00:07:45.789
to the public, it was the evening actually
at the National Portrait Gallery and

00:07:45.789 --> 00:07:49.419
people are saying that you know 'it's not
what I think of as a portrait doesn't

00:07:49.419 --> 00:07:52.600
look like a portrait to me" but you see I
think it is because I know what went

00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:58.450
into it so he's captured you know me
juggling all sorts of things but it's

00:07:58.450 --> 00:08:04.150
not just me see it's it's a big idea in
there it's a very big idea. But yeah the

00:08:04.150 --> 00:08:10.270
the printing of the of the work was a
lot of experimentation we were in Trent's

00:08:10.270 --> 00:08:18.130
studio and played with painting on the
screen to you know and you tried hand

00:08:18.130 --> 00:08:21.820
colouring hand colouring yeah I did a
lot of things in the studio here at Brook's studio

00:08:21.820 --> 00:08:26.020
and just you know putting things up
and moving things around I mean as you

00:08:26.020 --> 00:08:31.000
can tell from the finished work it's
quite a large place so you know to be

00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:36.310
able to see it all at once was it was a
challenge in my studio. Yeah so we'd

00:08:36.310 --> 00:08:40.990
stick it up here and stand up here and
look with it down here and it was good

00:08:40.990 --> 00:08:45.820
and I'm always an artist that I love
challenging the medium so I kind of said

00:08:45.820 --> 00:08:49.420
to Trent; let's do this and he says to
me yeah let's do that so it's it's it's

00:08:49.420 --> 00:08:53.920
been I just didn't want this to be a
screen print you know this is this is

00:08:53.920 --> 00:08:56.200
not just I don't see this portrait as a screen

00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:59.860
print. I see this is a portrait
representing Marcia. And so those

00:08:59.860 --> 00:09:04.150
elements in the way in which we got to
finally make decisions about how those

00:09:04.150 --> 00:09:08.410
elements are cut out how they're
actually floating so in the frame when

00:09:08.410 --> 00:09:13.450
you look at the frame that is a collage
there so there are what three six seven

00:09:13.450 --> 00:09:18.550
eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen
fourteen elements that bring it together

00:09:18.550 --> 00:09:26.190
And you know portraiture is so much more than a painting. It's so much more than

00:09:26.190 --> 00:09:31.090
the traditional way of looking at
somebody and I think that you know the

00:09:31.090 --> 00:09:34.810
way in which that we worked right from
the beginning of her sitting still so

00:09:34.810 --> 00:09:41.140
really she did sit for it anyway and I
did change it digitally a little bit. It

00:09:41.140 --> 00:09:47.920
became almost like a cartoon but not and
it's it's not really fixed so it's

00:09:47.920 --> 00:09:53.290
believable but it's not but it's also a
caricature but it's not. And so it's

00:09:53.290 --> 00:09:58.360
these sort of things that are not.. I
didn't want it to be a defining portrait.

00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:03.280
I didn't want it to be okay that's a
snapshot that's a photograph. I think it

00:10:03.280 --> 00:10:07.990
needed to be a bit more in the dream
world as well and I think that that was

00:10:07.990 --> 00:10:13.480
really more about capturing her
consciousness. And so what he's done is

00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:22.060
taken these this idea of Kali yeah and
put the two together you know my private

00:10:22.060 --> 00:10:29.500
persona my public persona then added
Kali and and and I think taken apart

00:10:29.500 --> 00:10:35.080
altogether, you know, undone the
conventional mythology about the

00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:39.190
'aboriginal portrait' the 'portrait of an
Aborigine' and I'm absolutely thrilled

00:10:39.190 --> 00:10:47.170
with the outcome. It's so big and bold
and colorful and lively it kind of

00:10:47.170 --> 00:10:52.930
doesn't matter that it's me or somebody
else. It's a meta statement

00:10:52.930 --> 00:10:58.180
about the portrait of an Aborigine yeah
but you know could be about any human

00:10:58.180 --> 00:11:03.190
being as well. But I like what he's done
a really like what he's done and I love

00:11:03.190 --> 00:11:08.320
it that he's taken really fundamental
elemental symbols

00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:17.890
the diamond and fire and
the skull and so on and the you

00:11:17.890 --> 00:11:24.300
know the meditation or even yoga
position and you know looking towards

00:11:24.300 --> 00:11:31.000
you know the other world yeah you know
the kind of the state of grace yeah he's

00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:36.430
taken all of that to make a much bigger
statement than a simple portrait we're

00:11:36.430 --> 00:11:40.000
about which people might wonder 'well
it's not a very good likeness is it dear'

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:43.600
you know it kind of it doesn't matter
that's not the point. This is a meta

00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:48.160
statement and I think in many ways he's
captured more about me than a

00:11:48.160 --> 00:11:55.810
conventional portrait would. And then we
showed Marcia and she said that it's the

00:11:55.810 --> 00:11:59.140
first time she saw it when she was
at the National Portrait Gallery and it

00:11:59.140 --> 00:12:04.630
was being launched which I thought was
funny because I'd sent her images of

00:12:04.630 --> 00:12:11.320
it but she loved it you know so and I
think it was she did see a certain

00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:16.030
elements of it but not as a whole and I
like that. But I'm so happy that

00:12:16.030 --> 00:12:20.050
she likes it and her daughter likes it
too so that's really important. I think

00:12:20.050 --> 00:12:24.790
the curators at the National Portrait
Gallery are very, were very brave for

00:12:24.790 --> 00:12:30.340
giving this commission to Brook and
allowing him to present them with

00:12:30.340 --> 00:12:37.200
a work that he was very happy with and
I'm thrilled that they're happy with it

00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:44.880
and I'm also you know very honored to be
in the National Portrait Gallery